Are these work sponsored outings or small non-work sponsored groups of people hanging out? Work-sponsored should attempt to round-robin enough to be maximally inclusive. Non-work sponsored gatherings are what they are -- I used to do Thursday night drinks at a bar near with coworkers; anyone was welcome but we weren't going to go get bubble tea instead just because someone didn't drink.
Right. That's how it works. You kick some people to the curb because their preferences are just not important enough to you.
Which is more important to you? Making a coworker feel included in your social gathering or drinking the right drink because it was Thursday?
Or more succinctly: is your tradition more important, or is your coworker more important?
Yes, your coworker should also try to fit in and properly conform to the standards your clique sets, and if it's so impossible for you to hang out together because there's absolutely no activity you have in common, then I wouldn't be surprised if they left the company.
You could have gone and gotten bubble tea on Tuesday instead, for instance.
Oh, that's so ridiculous. It's not tradition versus inclusion of a coworker. They are completely different environments. Some people really enjoy getting that alcohol buzz after a stressful day at work. Tradition would be like only going to a specific bar that one coworker can't go to or something. You aren't comparing apples to oranges. You are expecting people to change their personal habits because another coworker may not approve of them. That is a dangerous slope to begin down....
Its outside of work. Your own convictions and interests should dictate what you do outside of work. There are more differences between drinking beer at a bar and drinking non alcoholic drinks at a starbucks. People are going to enjoy them separately and unfortunately, for many people, the activities are not interchangeable. I personally don't drink, but I would never suggest to co-workers that they change their outside of work habits because I don't want to go to a bar.
It's clearly different if its a work sponsored event.
> You are expecting people to change their personal habits because another coworker may not approve of them.
I like that you put the word "approve" into my mouth. It's an excellent straw man technique and pretty underhanded. Well done. Full marks for rhetorical technique.
> I personally don't drink, but I would never suggest to co-workers that they change their outside of work habits because I don't want to go to a bar.
And yet, that's not what's happening.
The situation at hand is that there exists a group of people who like to do Activity A. Now a new person, Person P, joins the group who does not like doing Activity A.
Now, Person P has a choice. They can either leave the group or they can force themselves to do Activity A.
> It's clearly different if its a work sponsored event.
The thing that you're all missing is that the fact that it's in a workplace is completely irrelevant.
Let's assume Activity A is "going to a fellowship meeting on Friday nights". Would an atheist feel included if everyone simply said, "Oh, you don't want to? Guess we're leaving you behind, then." Or worse, if they said, "Oh, you don't want to? But you'll really like it! We demand you come along and do something you won't enjoy!"
"Can't we just go and play board games or something?" "No, fellowship is far more important! That's what we do on Friday nights."
I appreciate your approval of rhetorical technique.
In response, I would like to criticize yours. Person P did not join a "Going out to bar" group. They entered into an at-will employment agreement with a business entity. Person P should be neither obliged to join said "Going out to bar" group, nor should they expect that group to change their activity that everyone in the group enjoys (to a less enjoyable activity) simply to accommodate a new co-worker.
In your example, if my co-workers were religious and were talking about an event they were attending outside of work, there is no issue. I don't understand why you think your co-workers have some contractual duty to be inclusive in their personal lives. They might invite me because they personally enjoy working with me and want to extend our working relationship to a more casual, friendship environment, but I am under no contractual or employment obligation to go, therefore there is no duty by the company (or its employees, which are just extensions of the company in a work environment) to specifically be all inclusive.
The point is people are drawn to an activity for a certain reason. No group is going to take nicely to someone coming in and getting angry when they (where they could be 5-6 people) don't change their outside of work behavior to accommodate a single person.
You seem to be implying that there is some necessary reason to try to include co-workers in outside of work, non-work related, personal activities. That is why it appears that you are describing some contractual duty requiring co-workers to engage in personal social events.
Do you have a better word for this required need (than duty) that you say exists?
(By the way, the definition of duty: something that one is expected or required to do by moral or legal obligation. That is what I feel you are describing when you say people are required by necessity to include their co-workers. Maybe you should work on your communication skills instead of refusing to acknowledge your claim (a claim that implied employers have a right to police the personal, social events of their employees) was baseless and had no merit at all.)
This is incredible. I come back after cooling down to see whether or not you responded and I see that you've managed to add yet another layer of straw man. This time creating a employer-employee relationship out of thin air when the subject of discussion was about coworkers. I didn't even SAY anything last time!
I'll certainly concede I could have communicated better; that's basically always true anyways because NOT PERFECT. But the idea that I could have gotten through to you, who can't seem to reply without figuring out a way to twist what I've said, is ridiculous.
At root, you labor under the delusion your coworkers have an obligation to entertain you. They have no such obligation -- legal, moral, or practical.
Grow up, entertain yourself; participate in events if you enjoy them, or if not, suggest events you'll enjoy. But don't whine if they don't share your idea of fun and hence decline.
If you live in a reasonably sized city, you can find people into doing damn near whatever floats your boat.
> "You are expecting people to change their personal habits because another coworker may not approve of them."
I couldn't agree with you more here. I have been labeled MANY times as in the "after hours drinking group" by people that "don't drink" and I really not sure why I would care.
I don't talk about how people are in the "World of Warcraft group" and since I don't play world of warcraft you should come to the bar! ;) But really, those wow'ers should. It's fun.
Even a work-sponsored event can't please everybody. And face it, Most people like to go to a bar. So that's a reasonable choice when planning a work outing.
I don't like bars; its loud and crowded and there's absolutely nothing I want to do there. But can't please everybody.
Exactly -- their preferences aren't important to me. It's not my job to be your social life. I'm busy -- I have a more than full time job, hobbies, an SO, friends, and an awesome dog. I've got 2-3 nights per month to hang out with work people, and I use them doing something I enjoy.
See how all those statements were about me? That's because this is about my free time. And you, and all my coworkers for that matter, have no claim on it.
> I've got 2-3 nights per month to hang out with work people, and I use them doing something I enjoy.
That's super-great for you, but what if work people don't want to do something that you enjoy? Lemme guess: you won't hang out with them, right? Because that'd be a waste of your time.
Fun fact: that's the definition of you are not being included. But you didn't want to be invited to their uncool party anyways, right?
> And you, and all my coworkers for that matter, have no claim on it.
Why do you even bother hanging out with your coworkers at all? Like, what's in it for you? Are they just extra bodies filling in the space for doing something you enjoy?
That's super-great for you, but what if work people don't want to do
something that you enjoy? Lemme guess: you won't hang out with them, right?
Because that'd be a waste of your time.
Yes, exactly! I hang out with them when we do stuff together I enjoy; when they don't I decline. eg I find baseball boring, so when invited I say thanks but no thanks.
It's like being an adult with a life. This is clearly upsetting to you for some strange reason.
