Just wanted to add a note: Most people who aren't making anything won't be posting, so results will be drastically skewed. So for anyone here getting discourage because they think their a minority - think otherwise (And then get back to work on trying to get your own setup ;))
I wonder if it skews both ways. I tend not to post on these threads because a.) they come up so frequently and b.) it sometimes files like it's just bragging to keep telling everybody that my business stuff is successful.
I definitely agree on not getting discouraged. It's not in any way as hard as you think it is before trying. And you get better at it the more times you try.
My history of products looks like:
- Hey, I built this cool piece of technology. Maybe I should try to turn it into a product.
(... but never finished it) (X3)
- Hey, Google Maps is cool and I like travelling. Maybe I should launch a Travel Blog host.
(... without any fathomable way to monetize it)
- Hey, look at this cool one-day hack that got tons of Reddit love.
We should totally start a company!
(... with a flaky co-founder who never got around to doing any of the "business" stuff
before bailing for the next shiny thing)
- Hey, I bet you could transform Amazon's cloud storage logs into CLF and
feed them into Webalizer. I should totally sell this for like $1/month!
(... which actually turned out to be a good idea, but for $10-$300/month)
After all that, I expect my next product will be something with some form of actual market of people willing to pay money for it before diving in to the IDE. But then you never know...
Nice, it's awesome that you've been able to do so well with your Amazon product! What kind of things do you do/have you done to market it? Or did you rely on an "if-you-build-it-they-will-come" strategy?
Yes, my first paying side-project (virtsync) was the fourth or fifth thing I'd started. I currently have three other ideas I'm working on, but I find it difficult to focus on one.
The flip side is that a lot of people with highly successful recurring revenue streams don't post at all, because it would invite competition into their niche.
It's almost a certainty that every idea for a website or app that is highly successful at generating recurring revenue already has multiple competitors. A lot of recurring revenue tends to mean a lot of users which tends to mean it's not a secret.
It's been several years now that I'd like to launch a few side projects. But contrary to the crowd here I'm just a normal human : when I come home I'm just exhausted and / or want to do something else than coding.
I could use the extra cash though. This month I even tried placing bets on soccer and tennis and failed miserably.
I've found that you have to work on something that you're passionate about, something you want to use. I don't have the magic formula for finding these things, but after trying several side projects and having them fizzle out, I've finally found something that I want to spend almost all of my free time on, and I do. I do hope to sell the product, but what keeps me working on it 40 hrs a week, in addition to my full time job, is the promise of actually using the device.
The closest I can get to making the process formulaic is to find a hobby that requires gear of some kind. Before you ever build something to improve that hobby, you need to enjoy the hobby. Then, find some aspect of that hobby that could be improved, most likely through some sort of automation.
I've come up with a pretty cool project with obvious business model this exact way. I started with a new hobby last year, quickly saw some inefficiencies and ways it could be made easier with technology/computing and have started building it out. Although I don't have as much time as I'd like to spend on it (newborn twins!), I'm definitely motivated and excited every time I crack open Sublime Text :)
I realize that you're being somewhat facetious, but don't think of the hobby itself as the income generator. Think of something that is difficult or expensive, or time intensive about working on your car, and try to make it easier, cheaper and or faster to accomplish. Think of it from the perspective of people that work on cars for a living. Anything that saves them time/labor/equipment costs will be of interest to these people.
The bare essence is this: find a problem that a large group of people experience, and find a way that allows people to solve that problem.
Mechanics are people who enjoy working on cars; and beyond that, cars provide lots of space to tinker --- I remember being inspired by old Mother Earth News articles on converting your pickup to be wood-burning, or vegetable-oil-burning, or any sort of alternative fuel. Farming/gardening is a great way to play with your kids, and make a little money on the side too; the money is likely to not be significant, but the pleasure at making money from the work of your hands is personally palpable, since I normally am a knowledge-worker.
It has taken me months to build up will power to the point where I can work on coding projects in my spare time consistently. Fail. And not care and keep carrying on.
Some ideas that may help:
1. Enter a hackathon. Group up with people and you will be compelled to code.
2. Train for a half marathon. Increase your endurance and your ability of will to keep to the training schedule.
3. Have children. Ironically the ridiculous overhaul this has has on my life has increased my resilience. Last night I got woken up 3 or 4 times. That's normal. I feel OK. Also the children will motivate you to the long term goal of having more time with them and not being stuck at work for so many hours.
4. Do the equivalent of having children - maybe take a second job for a while to get used to the extra hours.
5. Give up TV.
6. Give up Caffeine.
7. Give up Alcohol
8. Give up Socializing
9. Learn to get an itchy feeling on any day you haven't taken action. It's a horrible feeling that keeps me glued to the laptop.
10. Therapy. This should be for everyone not for just the very depressed etc.
I seriously hope that "8) Give up Socializing" was a bit of a joke. I think that once this becomes the norm in your life, your life will suck big time.
Getting out there to engage and to talk other folk is great. A side bonus from this activity is that it is a great source of new ideas, just keep an open mind.
If they're not normal humans, it's only because they have more willpower than you. That's the best news ever, because it's been proven in studies time and time again that willpower can be built up just like muscles through exercise. Conquer your will, and you'll be able to use it to build what you want. Start with meditation if you're not doing it already. Regular physical exercise and meditation are excellent ways to build your willpower, and I guarantee that an inordinately large percentage of HN users meditate compared to the general public.
I agree that some people just have very little ambition and determination. However, I think the statement "If they're not normal humans, it's only because they have more willpower than you." is way too overgeneralized given the limited information you have regarding jmnicolas' life (unless you know more than can be gleaned from his post here).
There are any number of completely valid reasons why a person would be too exhausted to work on a side project after work hours. People do have limitations. Some people have very difficult lives. People do burn out -- and everything does not boil down to having the willpower or not. I'm not saying willpower is irrelevant -- it is relevant. It just isn't the only variable in the equation.
Actually in studies I saw posted on HN it's been proven willpower is not a muscle but a resource. However you can use more of that precious resource for things that matter by building up habits and avoiding unnecessary situations which drain your willpower. That said, physical state affects willpower level, so exercises and meditation do help a lot.
For me, it was a serious medical issue that was partly psychosomatic. Exercise and meditation were just parts of the recovery, and afterwards they stuck around as valuable tools.
For others? I recommend you stare death in the face and use that as motivation. One day you will be dead. Accept that. Then decide whether you want to idle through life letting your mind control you and drive you to do whatever is easiest and most comfortable for it because evolution taught it to seek comforts out, or if you want to accomplish your dreams.
If you want to accomplish your dreams, and know you don't have the willpower, the first obvious step is to build that willpower.
Every day you falter, stare death in the face again and get back to daily meditation and exercise until you've got the willpower to take on your dreams.
I'm half-serious :) I agree that the first step is to build that willpower. But you need willpower to take that first step. How do you get that? If I was the kind of person to persist day after day doing meditation and exercise, I'm not sure I'd need to build willpower :)
The first step is the hardest. Typically people need some type of life/environment change in order to prod them into additional changes. Moving, getting a new job, throwing away your TV :) might be just the things to facilitate a change.
Unfortunately, friends often get in the way of that change. Few people do it on purpose, but if you suddenly find willpower your friends may feel bad about themselves and then try to pull you back down. You don't need to dump all your friends, but there is certainly value in evaluating each relationship and making sure it is positive and healthy. Some people you may decide not to see again (hopefully not), and others you simply decide to spend less time with. The saying I like to use is you are the average of the 5 people closest to you.
People on an H1B can own a non-US business that does not make US-source income. The tricky bit is that there are two major considerations to avoid having the business' income sourced to the US: (1) permanent establishment, and (2) the IRC 861-863 income sourcing rules.
Without going into much detail, permanent establishment generally defines when a business is treated as operating in a country. The specific conditions are set forth in various tax treaties between the US and other countries. Generally, having an employee residing in the US and working for the business (whether or not as owner) is usually treated as resulting in a US permanent establishment, meaning the business is treated as operating in the US. If you are from a country which does not have a tax treaty with the US, the issue is generally much simpler: does the business have any income-generating operations in the US?
The second consideration is sourcing of income. IRC 861 and 862 define what income is US-sourced and what income is foreign-sourced. Generally, income from US customers or US payors is US-sourced income, and the same income from foreigners is foreign-sourced. For income taxation purposes, this distinction doesn't matter but it does matter for non-tax purposes. The H1B restricts the employee from engaging in US employment or business activities, but does not restrict their non-US employment or business activities.
A blog hosted on a foreign host, targeting a foreign audience, and earning foreign ad dollars is not a US business and generally should not violate the H1B rules, however you need to talk to an immigration attorney to make sure the analysis applies to the specific blogging activities you would be engaging it.
IANL, but at one time I was on H-1B and now US citizen. It is not illegal to own a US business on H-1B. Also, there is no issue with business owned by H-1B having revenue, for example from ads on a blog. If you own a business, you can issue dividend to owners even on H-1B without any issue.
What you can't have on H-1B is the wage from 'unapproved' sources. You will need to get H-1B for every wage source. But there is no restriction on you receiving dividends, capital gains, etc.
Don't confuse "revenue" with income and "wage" with income. Income can be wage, dividend, capital gains, etc. H-1B only restricts 'wage'.
How about if the income is in your country of origin? Can't your side project just pay out where ever you're from? It's the Internet, websites aren't really located anywhere.
No :) It's not legal in America for people resident in America on an H1B visa to operate businesses.
You could just ignore this, like I do, but if you're in America on an H1B visa, which I'm not, then you're probably best off following the rules, lest they expel you and never let you back in, without giving you time to organise getting all your stuff back first.
To be clear, we're talking about running a country in your home country, not in America, while you are currently on an H1B in America. I'm sure you know more about this than I do -- could you provide me with a link? I'd love to learn more.
It's perfectly fine to own a foreign business (i.e., not located in the US). But it's generally a violation of the H1B to run (i.e., operate/manage/supervise) that business from the US because the foreign business is then generally treated as having a US presence. See "permanent establishment" and the US tax treaty with whatever country you're from.
That is not true. You can be on H1B and not work for a business as an employee but can own a business. Making money on ads on a blog is perfectly legal.
It's a tricky hole to thread: if the blog is being run as a business it could violate the terms of the H1B. On the other hand, a blog that is run as a hobby and that makes incidental/minimal income should not violate the H1B. Generally, the difference between the two is that a business blog is intended and managed to maximize revenue (even if it actually does not make money), while a hobby blog is not intended to make money(even if it actually does).
I have been looking at your replies at this thread, and I think you are confusing legality with ethics (at least in the nature of the law and visa regulations).
I am sure it is perfectly legal to work on something for your brother, while he earns the money off the product/app/website.
The point I am trying to get across is that such restrictions kill (or seriously hurt) any attempt of innovation coming from people on H1B visas. There are a number of ways to try to circumvent the laws, but the risks associated with them make it not worth the attempt.
I would not risk my status here or the possibility of owning a green card for a side project that makes me a couple hundred dollars a month. It is not worth it.
I really like this thread because it reminds me (and others) that creating a product is not only about leaving full time job, doing crazy hours and trying to raise money, like it's often portrayed. You can simply create a product with reasonable cash flow as a side project.
