>You feel that the creator owns all potential value immediately when the thing is created.
That is a bit simplified, but yes, it's essentially what I believe. In your estimation, who else should own that value?
>I dont believe that this is true, the owner owns only that value which they are able to realize, if they are unable to realize the value they expected then that is not theft.
That logic seems so completely and obviously circular that I'm thinking that my interpretation can't be what you actually meant. Here's what I read. Please correct where I've misunderstood you:
The owner provides a means for realizing the value of a creation (i.e. attaches a means of distribution and a price). People side-step that distribution and opt for a means not authorized by the owner, which does not compensate the owner. Then, the conclusion is, "well, the owner wasn't able to capture the value, so it's not theft".
Seems to me that the theft is the reason the owner was not able to realize the value.
>where did this come from? demand of an infinitely reproducible product does not necessitate "some price above zero" it can be exactly zero dollars that people are willing to pay.
Basic economics. Generally, the reproducibility of a product does not dictate the demand for it, only the supply. Accordingly, reproducibility may affect the price, but not the demand. People don't want something more because there are more of them, although oversupply may lower the price to one that more people are willing to pay.
The bigger point is that you are confusing demand with price elasticity. When consumers want a product (demand), there is some price that some number of those consumers will pay for it. If you couldn't download a movie for free, but could get it for $0.01 vs. $100.00, you may well choose $0.01. But, you'd pay something that represents how much you value it. You are an exception to this only if you never buy anything. Other than that, this applies to you as well, no matter how much you seem to suggest that you never pay for things you want, but stock up on free stuff you don't want.
I don't know. I can't determine why such a simple concept becomes so tedious, with all of the circular logic and red-herrings about breaking-and-entering to copy drawings, re-selling used iPhones and such.
Through all of the posts here, no one has clearly elucidated why people have a right to the value created by someone else's labor, other than by paying the price that person has set.
That is a bit simplified, but yes, it's essentially what I believe. In your estimation, who else should own that value?
>I dont believe that this is true, the owner owns only that value which they are able to realize, if they are unable to realize the value they expected then that is not theft.
That logic seems so completely and obviously circular that I'm thinking that my interpretation can't be what you actually meant. Here's what I read. Please correct where I've misunderstood you:
The owner provides a means for realizing the value of a creation (i.e. attaches a means of distribution and a price). People side-step that distribution and opt for a means not authorized by the owner, which does not compensate the owner. Then, the conclusion is, "well, the owner wasn't able to capture the value, so it's not theft".
Seems to me that the theft is the reason the owner was not able to realize the value.
>where did this come from? demand of an infinitely reproducible product does not necessitate "some price above zero" it can be exactly zero dollars that people are willing to pay.
Basic economics. Generally, the reproducibility of a product does not dictate the demand for it, only the supply. Accordingly, reproducibility may affect the price, but not the demand. People don't want something more because there are more of them, although oversupply may lower the price to one that more people are willing to pay.
The bigger point is that you are confusing demand with price elasticity. When consumers want a product (demand), there is some price that some number of those consumers will pay for it. If you couldn't download a movie for free, but could get it for $0.01 vs. $100.00, you may well choose $0.01. But, you'd pay something that represents how much you value it. You are an exception to this only if you never buy anything. Other than that, this applies to you as well, no matter how much you seem to suggest that you never pay for things you want, but stock up on free stuff you don't want.
I don't know. I can't determine why such a simple concept becomes so tedious, with all of the circular logic and red-herrings about breaking-and-entering to copy drawings, re-selling used iPhones and such.
Through all of the posts here, no one has clearly elucidated why people have a right to the value created by someone else's labor, other than by paying the price that person has set.