It’s just inferior to Python, nobody is making a more complex argument than that. Why ever use Ruby when there’s a virtually identical system that’s faster with a bigger community.
Because Ruby is just a better thought out language than Python is. It had a sane package management story 15 years before Python. It doesn't rely on weird hacks like exception throwing for iterator control flow. It doesn't have nearly as many warts and footguns on basic operations (for example, in Python csv.writer(file).writerows(rows) is broken unless you remembered to set the newline mode on the file; in Ruby file.write(rows.to_csv) just works). Thanks to a sane VM design it's mainline JIT can actually run code faster than interpreted code (something that CPython's JIT can't do [1])
Many Pythonistas are woefully ignorant of what's going on outside their siloed community.
Having immutable objects by default isn’t incredibly commonplace outside of functional languages. It certainly isn’t unique to Ruby and seems out of place in a discussion comparing Ruby to Python. Fortunately, you can defensively freeze any objects you’re passing around to avoid the most common issues with mutable objects.
Immutable strings is a more popular programming language feature and Ruby has a mechanism for opting into that. It’s so commonplace that the complaint usually isn’t that a string can be modified, but rather that every source file includes a magic comment to prevent that. Besides data safety, the VM can optimize frozen strings, so popular linters will flip that setting on for you. String mutability isn’t a practical issue for modern codebases. And, as language design goes, it’s kinda nice not needing to use a parallel set of classes for mutable and immutable string data IMHO.
With that said, the magic comment is a wart and folks are looking at making immutable strings the default. But, there’s a strong desire to avoid breaking the world. The Ruby Core team is keen to keep the lessons learned from the Python 2 -> 3 migration in mind.
Not only a wart but a massive foot gun, not shared by any other language, as I said. It is incredibly common to create hash tables using strings as keys, and Ruby makes this dangerous by default.
> Having immutable objects by default isn’t incredibly commonplace outside of functional languages
They make it easy to create immutable objects. Python has tuples and immutable data classes. Strings are immutable.
> The Ruby Core team is keen to keep the lessons learned from the Python 2 -> 3 migration in mind.
In the meantime, this ridiculous foot gun that no other language shares exists. That is a fact, and the fix being hard does not make it any less of a fact.
In what ways is it inferior? Neither Ruby or Python are 'fast', so if that is one of your qualifiers you've already made a suboptimal choice.
As for a bigger community, what does that serve? The large python community adds misdirection and more voices to a language that lacks some basic features still. Async/sync code models are still being finalized whereas Ruby has been stable in this regard for 10+ years. Same with tooling - the Ruby side is more consistent and stable: Sidekiq for background jobs (Celery is barely coming to maturity), Bundler for dependencies (pip? poetry? uv?). Mature auth + other frameworks like Devise.
Having worked in both languages professionally, I strongly disagree with your take.
Ruby is a lot less awful than Python in my opinion. That is of course a very subjective opinion. The only reason I write more Python than Ruby is that ruby lacks the libraries I need.
Somewhere along the line Python got all the momentum, and ruby got none and now python is better if you just want to get shit done.
But man. I wish it was the other way around. I have one code snippet that summarises what I dislike about python:
if input() == "dynamic scope?":
defined = "happyhappy"
print(defined)
Seeing that I understand why I see yuck in just about every corner of python.
Edit: in ruby it also works, but the variable is at least always defined.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for it, but strict technical merits aside, Python to me seems built by engineers who lacked any sense of taste. Ruby is beautiful.
Well. If python is a dynamically scoped language, what they do is correct. If they are lexically scoped (which python is described as) the variable defined in the if should never have different visibility in the same scope.
In a lexically scoped language you don't define variables conditionally. What ruby does is also icky, but obviously the developers of both python and ruby wanted to save the developer an extra declaration. The ruby version is at least more correct from a lexical standpoint (it is set to nil if left "nondefined").
Blanket statements like this are unhelpfully tribal. Ruby has its uses, and underpins one of the most successful (and cloned) MVC frameworks of all time. But yeah, Python received the attention of data scientists early on and now it's a lingua franca of sorts in that domain. Since AI is so hot right now that makes Python seem superior, but really that's just contingency.
True. Choosing between the two languages usually comes down to their library ecosystems - or more bluntly, to Rails on one hand vs NumPy on the other.
Nonetheless, it's still common for people to talk about the relative performance of the two languages, and to claim that Ruby is slower than Python. As someone who's actually tested this, it hasn't been true for 15 years.
> Why ever use Ruby when there’s a virtually identical system [...] with a bigger community.
There was a time in the history of Python when people who chose Python did so primarily because they found it beautiful or pleasant to work with. These are reasonable factors in choosing a language, and they continue to be popular reasons for choosing relatively unpopular languages today.
Ruby/rails has always felt fragile to
me. Like you have to write the same tests over and over to make up for the looseness of it, not to mention the culture of breaking changes adds insult to injury. Just seems like a mess and the nice syntax (subjectively) isn't nearly enough to win when better options exist.
