ICJ has made no such finding. They will probably making a ruling on genocide allegations in the coming years; they certain have not made one yet. The opinions they've issued so far are here https://www.icj-cij.org/decisions
ICJ found the accusation plausible, and did later in another case conclude that the israeli occupation of palestinian land and apartheid is not lawful and must stop.
Whether ICJ had found genocide perpetrated or just plausible does not matter very much since international law demands that even the risk of genocide triggers state action to put an end to that risk. The ICJ judgement regarding plausibility also made demands towards Israel, which that state has refused to comply with.
Starving a population of millions and systematically destroying their homes and infrastructure does not become jolly fine and dandy just because some court hasn't yet deemed it genocidal.
This is still not accurate. What ICJ found plausible was "some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection". The then-president even clarified explicitly that the plausibility finding was about the existence of these rights, not the occurrence of genocide [1].
Noone is saying things are "jolly fine and dandy", but it's important to stick to facts when making such accusations.
It's not nitpicking - what the court is entirely different from what you stated (though it's understandable as a lot of sources misrepresent it).
The court can issue orders without finding any sort of violation, which is what happened in this case when they ordered Israel to "prevent genocide". It can be interpreted as a reminder to Israel of its obligations.
States have a clear obligation to stop the genocide in Palestine. Only the mentally infirm distrust that one is ongoing. Due to rules of process and the perpetrators waging war against the court it will likely never make a sound judgement in this case.
It has, however, found reason to order Israel to take certain actions, with the express purpose of preventing genocide, which the state of Israel has refused to follow and its politicians, pundits and other prominent members of israeli society have kept declaring their genocidal intent over and over again since then.
Do you worry more about the interpretation of legal minutiae than a developing mainstream in international relations that considers genocide and other forms of indiscriminate murder permissible?
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
idk isn't pager operation the textbook example of "trying to avoid civilian deaths" while getting your job done?
why is it "genocide"? is becoming hezbollah determined at birth? is hezbollah a race? does average civilian use walkie-talkie?
even if hezbollah was a race, after its civilian attack on 2023 (beheading babies, raping and killing even foreigners), I wouldn't even care about what those guys get
(also, don't say "humanity" like you represent the whole "humanity")
if you ARE talking about palestinian civilians, I don't think israel can do anything more gentlemen-ly to them other than pager-operation: the other option is carpet bombing and direct invasion (which is a completely another topic)
The ICJ has not said Israel's response is a genocide - not in Lebanon, which is what this thread is about, nor in Gaza.
“…the court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim… it did not decide — and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media — it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.” - ICJ head President Donoghue
First of all, you are conflating Hamas and Hezbollah.
Second of all, the stories about beheading of babies and mass rape on October 7, 2023 have been thoroughly debunked.
Third: the pager operation caused indiscriminate explosions at places where non-combattant citizens were present. Not very gentlemen-ly (to use your words), and indeed a war crime.
Fourth: What they did in Gaza is arguably worse than carpet bombing.
But the hundreds of concert goers who Hamas killed is very true. Remember how they paraded the broken body of that young German woman around like a disgusting hunting trophy?
How did you come up with that tally? Israel has refused to comply with requests from international investigators into the matter, likely because a lot of the casualties were due to IDF actions.
I remember the footage of "that young German woman" but it is to me extremely peripheral and did a lot less of an impression than the thousands of images of destroyed baby bodies I've seen that were caused by the IDF. The criminal actions perpetrated by palestinians on October 7th 2023 were pathetic compared to what the israelis have done for decades.
Claiming the IDF killed all of these people is a truly despicable lie that destroys your credibility.
On 7 October 2023, the al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Palestinian nationalist Islamist political organization Hamas, initiated a sudden attack on Israel from the Gaza Strip. As part of the attack, 378 people (344 civilians and 34 security personnel) were killed and many more wounded at the Supernova Sukkot Gathering, an open-air music festival during the Jewish holiday of Shemini Atzeret near kibbutz Re'im. Hamas also took 44 people hostage, and men and women were reportedly subject to sexual and gender-based violence. Some 20 of the attackers were also killed by Israeli security forces in the area of the festival.
I did not write "all of these people". I pointed out that the state of Israel has refused to provide conditions for an investigation of what happened, and instead it has mainly been the press and leaks to the press that have shed light on the issue.
What we have known for sure since then is that the IDF brought helicopters to the area where the festival was held and Hellfire:d generously, hence the large amount of burnt cars and the typical markings on asphalt roads and so on that are clearly visible in the early photos.
This and the use of tank artillery against inhabitants of the kibbutzim has caused several scandals in israeli politics and the opposition has been requesting thorough investigation for a long time by now. The IDF calls this policy of killing your own soldiers and civilians the Hannibal directive.
I've been following this genocidal colony for decades, every time they've been "mowing the lawn" as they call it there is a massive amount of imagery of murdered kids coming out of the Gaza strip. The reason you think I'm lying is that you haven't been paying attention, and this is probably also why you react so strongly to a single recording of palestinians parading Shani Louk. It might also just be that you're racist and deem israelis or zionists generally more human than the people they are exterminating.
Well, if that stops your thinking, maybe ponder the illegality of the israeli occupation of palestinian territory then.
The israelis must withdraw their people from palestinian territories occupied in -67 and ought to pay reparations for both the occupation and destruction of property, as well as allow refugees to either return to their homes or pay reparations to them.
Unless they do this immediately the international community ought to assemble an international military force and invade the region and put an end to the US-Israeli atrocities. Which is unlikely since they're both expected to use nuclear weapons in response to justice.
After losing WW2 Germany lost about 25% of its land. When Israel was created by UN mandate the Palestinians were offered their own sovereign state, something they never had, but instead chose to try to destroy Israel to get all of the land. They lost and are never going to get that land back. Your entire comment is completely deranged.
In WWII Germany was the genocidal aggressor, in this case Israel and its backers are the genocidal aggressors.
Punishing a state for genocidal aggression is quite a bit more reasonable than the might is right-ideology you subscribe to.
The palestinians have a right to statehood and self-determination, it's not something they need to be "offered". They also have a right to return to their homelands, and they have a right to oppose occupation, violently if they so choose.
And East Jerusalem and the Gaza strip. I'd also argue that the occupations of Lebanon and Syria are illegal, and that taking control over the Philadelphi corridor was an act of war against Egypt.
If you think such crimes of occupation and aggression are "very much needed", then I'll have to consider you morally impaired beyond the ability to take part in a reasoned discussion.
The northern settlements were largely evacuated and used by the IDF. The party to this conflict that systematically targets civilians is the state of Israel.
One could make the argument that the US and Israel committing genocide makes paramilitary action against them legal, since the US controls the UN security council through their veto power.
Right now Israel is an occupying power that systematically destroys civilian infrastructure and threatens an international force in Lebanon, making it permissible to fight back.
"The northern settlements were largely evacuated and used by the IDF."
This is a complete and utter lie. Hezbollah's missile attacks throughout 2024 led to the
evacuation of over 60,000 Israeli residents from northern Israel.
Try to imagine the US response to Mexico shooting that many missiles at a US city.
"Israel is an occupying power"
Israel isn't occupying Lebanon but Hezbollah is.
" making it permissible to fight back."
This is exactly what Israel did so brilliantly with the pager attack.
Close to a hundred thousand israelis were evacuated from the north at the peak of it. Out of thousands of attacks something like 45 israeli civilians were killed, like when the IDF brought civilians to repair power lines and Hezbollah attacked them. More IDF soldiers were killed between October 2023 and the so called ceasefire agreement, which makes it quite clear that Hezbollah practiced restraint in this regard.
I still agree with e.g. HRW that Hezbollah did not do enough to protect civilians, but adjacent to the crimes of the IDF it's a rounding error.
IDF discplaced something like 1.5 million people in Lebanon, many of whom still aren't allowed to return to their homes and those that try are commonly murdered, and similarly those that try to repair their homes have their equipment destroyed or are killed. Recently Israel bombed a parking lot filled with bulldozers and excavators and the like, to halt reconstruction in Lebanon.
Claiming that one of the largest parties in lebanese politics "is an occupying power" is insane. Israel is building military facilities in Lebanon and controlling territory, as well as attacking both Beirut and the Beqaa valley every now and then in violation of the so called ceasefire agreement.
"Hezbollah did not do enough to protect civilians"
What an insane statement. Hezbollah was intentionally trying to kill as many civilians as possible with the missiles. The only reason they "only" killed 45 is because Israel has invested so much into the Iron Dome system.
Hezbollah isn't a political party. It is a proxy army of Iran. That is why they started shooting missiles at Israel after Oct 7 2023 even though it led to the killing of its leader
Hassan Nasrallah
No, they did not. They also mainly used munitions that fly low and escape the israeli air defenses, which is why most of their targets were close to the border.
Hezbollah is a movement that is many things, among them one of the dominant parties in lebanese parliamentary politics. The name means 'Party of God', which is a hint. They also run hospitals, schools and other social services, as well as financial organisations. Due to the background as a militant mobilisation against israeli aggression they also have several armed factions, which is a very reasonable response to their southern neighbour.
Nasrallah and other Hezbollah leaders stated that they initiated militant action against Israel to support the palestinians and clearly expected it to shorten the genocidal campaign in the Gaza strip. As we now know, this strategy failed and Hezbollah misjudged the bloodthirst of israeli society as well as the degree of backing it would have from the US and european states. They should not have wasted time on a restrained attrition style campaign and instead acted more forcefully if they wanted to slow or halt the extermination of the palestinians.
As for Nasrallah, he is surely missed by many but he also spent his life expecting and preparing for martyrdom.
Yes. They formed as a militia to protect Lebanon against israeli invasion, because the relevant colonial powers did not allow the lebanese state to build enough of an army to protect its borders.
