Or a dozen. Or, better, a few dozen. Read "The Mom Test" to learn how to get useful information from your face to face discussions.

So much this! The Mom Test is a rare gem in a sea of startup advice books, but it's the only one I've come across that cuts through all the BS and focusses on the only important thing - finding a market for people who want your product.

Spoiler alert - you can't always do it sitting at home in your office chair.

Exactly this.

It's inherent in the process and way of thinking. It's a dangerous path to pursue for entrepreneurs. How can the results be anything but disposable and frivolous when the process treats them as such.

From what I perceive of his personality through the media, I totally believe that a 24 years old Steve Jobs in 2025 would do that.

Jobs was a perfectionist and would not have done that, given what I read from Isaacson's biography.

He would have started a group of people and got them to each do that, and then connected with the winners of the hundreds or thousands of attempts and then taken credit for it.

Jobs literally did get a group of people together and did not do that. He built a company where all the products contributed to the vision of personal computing; either personal computers or personal computer accessories.

The thing people seem to forget about Jobs is that he really was that good, that obsessive/dedicated and that visionary. It's that simple.

His process resulted in some of the most transformative products humanity has ever known.

True, but lots of people who were less talented failed with this approach. It's always a bad idea to look for advice from outliers.

Steve Jobs comparison is not great. You don’t have to be Jobs or have grand vision to make decent product that will make you money.

„indie hacker community builds worthless, visionless widgets „ - I totally agree with this sentence. Those 37 „products” feel like huge waste of time even ones he sold.

> Virality is rare and nearly impossible to predict

People see viral products and early hackers who spent years building their reputation, and think that's not too hard, and maybe you need to try as many as possible... Nope, you need to build a business too! Low-hanging fruit saas can be built so fast nowadays that knowing how to build software is not a huge advantage. We know that building businesses takes time and a huge effort. Most businesses will not be Lovable like.

But how do you find that first customer who's willing to pay for a solution?

In a way, that's the same problem as getting a job, which seems to be harsh for recent college graduates.

It's complicated, but you have to talk to real human beings in your surroundings and learn about their lives.

Please elaborate. I think I can talk to people pretty well. But I've yet to hear anyone accidentally mentioning a valid business opportunity.

How do you pre-filter which event to go to and who to talk to?

How do you introduce the topic of potential business ideas?

How do you confirm that they would actually pay for it if you would build it?

Also, has this ever worked for you?

You learn where your customers hang out, and then you hang out there and authentically become part of the social group. You spend weeks/months/years learning what they like, their workflows, and their problems. Or, better, you've already spent years working with your customers so you have some experience in these matters. Then you spend more time setting up face-to-face discussions, at conferences, online, or wherever they hang out, *not* trying to shill, but honestly and authentically trying to learn what they need.

It may take dozens or hundreds of attempts, and then you find a small group, maybe a half dozen or so, that are early adopters, willing to live with your experiments and provide feedback. Work with them to hone the value proposition, and learn how to communicate it effectively. Tweak or pivot the product to fit their needs, often for many more months.

There is no simple solution that involves making a few social media posts, or paying for advertisements, or spamming people with email. Everything that actually works takes lots of personal time and energy.

Has this ever worked for you? If so, could you walk us through your journey?

In my experience if you spend a really long time trying to identify a problem to solve, you end up burning too much time on a problem that may not work. The Indiehackers approach is like the opposite of that where you shotgun low-effort attempts at ideas until you find one that sticks. I think most folks trying to build a business want something in the middle though. Use your experience and your knowledge to winnow the market of potential opportunities and to offer you an advantage (with your expertise) then iterate by creating different products until one of those products gets traction.

When I worked at a tech company that eventually became one of the Big Tech Unicorns of the last rush, we had plenty of products that completely bombed, much to the sadness of the folks that worked on them.

This approach has worked for me, and many others. Read the Lean Startup for the general approach, and The Mom Test to learn how to talk to prospective customers. The main point is that you need to talk to customers and work with them throughout the process.

I never read over the Mom Test but this thread has so many recs for it. Definitely moving it up in my list.

I suspect the 2020's indie hacker community is now a byproduct of the "get rich" enshittification of social media and their role models are tiktok and instagram influencers who teach you how to "build" because with ai no tech skills needed anymore.