This is one of the first really important lessons you learn in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Everyone walks in, day one, and is dumping adrenaline everywhere they look. I mean, the person in front of you is literally engaging you in practicing murder, so I get it. Everyone starts that way. Super tense, super shallow breathing, and everyone wears themselves out in about 30-40 seconds. Of a 6 minute round.
Doesn’t matter if you’re the most insanely buff dude ever, or seriously overweight. The first guy has better conditioning, no doubt… but not this kind of conditioning. One of my favorite things was watching a new guy walk in, looking like he had maybe 7% body fat, 6’2” at least, plays D1 basketball, and is just nothing but stacked muscle… and then him rolling with a 5’6” 130lb woman who just wipes the floor with him, because training matters more than strength, but even more importantly, breathing and staying calm, slow, and smooth matters even more. The basketball player spends the first minute or so using all his strength to try and get this “puny” girl off of him, unable to, and is now completely gassed. Meanwhile she’s tapped him twice and could go for a run.
Eventually, the most important thing you learn is to relax and breathe. Technique eventually comes, through iteration and lots and lots of practice; eventually, things become second nature.
But breathing? Reminding yourself to relax and roll smart, not fast? That I need to remind myself of most days, because again: you’re facing someone practicing killing you. :)
Jiu Jitsu practitioners have incredible conditioning from repeating that exact same story of {guy who thought he was tough} being defeated by {unlikely protagonist} in any scenario they can shoehorn it into, with extreme enthusiasm
It was Judo and I was a scrawny teenager, but a black belt used to hold me to the floor by doing head stands on me so... you hear those stories a lot because they're true.
As that cocky beginner who went in to Jiujitsu and ran out of breath after 30 seconds in a 6 minute roll and had to tap out 15 times in the next 5 and a half minutes against a smaller opponent, it is repeated because it is true. A huge part of beginner training is basically slow down and getting yourself into positions where you can perform the moves.
Pretty sure every martial art has a version of this tale. Either the old wizened master or a petite practitioner taking down the muscle bound action hero.
I’ve been training jiu jitsu for over 6 years now. The myth of the 130 lb woman doing anything to the <insert any weight above 180 lbs> is overused and not true; unless the man is being a gentleman.
I routinely get beaten by small women because I’m not a spazoid and I want my training partners to enjoy training with me.
But if my life was on the line, there’s no way they could tap me. Not even a chance.
> I routinely get beaten by small women because I’m not a spazoid and I want my training partners to enjoy training with me.
This is not the kind of thing I’m talking about. Of course we all regularly get “beaten” by people with less skill and who are smaller, or bigger, or anything else - but I’m not talking about training with a partner or letting them practice a technique during a roll.
I’m talking about people that walk in with their egos very high and their skill very low. There are those who come in and are almost afraid to use any strength at all. Then there are those who believe that strength is all you need, so on their first few rolls they gas out immediately and then get rocked.
I’m not suggesting that two trained people of vastly different weight classes would be equally matched. That would be absurd.
Also, I’m not talking about your life being on the line. I’m talking about BJJ.
I can tell you it’s a real thing because it happened to me.
6’3” and at that time (19 or 20) was probably right around that 180lbs - no one would have described me as muscular back then though, just skinny more like it.
Anyways, first day of training, the first thing the instructor did was assume I needed humble pie. Told me he wanted to see my baseline, said get in the cage, and called over the only female in the class. She was ~5’6” ~140lbs from memory. Not chubby, just stalky and solid. Rest of the class came over to watch with cheeky smiles too. Later found out it was kind of her thing to break in the new guys.
She had me in a rear naked tapping out in under 30s.
I didn’t know what it signified at the time, but she was a brown belt and regularly took home hardware from regional amateur tournaments.
I had ~6 mo striking experience (Muay Thai), but had never rolled, never wrestled in high school. Best and only entry on my grappling resume was growing up with a brother.
So it does happen, as I can attest, but I do understand your skepticism if you haven’t seen it, especially because of additional hidden context like this:
- I had never directly encountered, and was extremely uncomfortable with, the idea of physically overpowering a female. It was the most unnatural thing, and I was psychologically paralyzed by this until it was way too late.
- She had zero chill. Probably read my obvious body language, and knew her play was to blitz.
- I didn’t know how rolling was supposed work with any opponent, let alone a female. I didn’t know rolling etiquette, conventions, nothing at all. Not that it would have mattered because she had no intention of offering me the usual respects anyways.
If she had attacked me on the street with murder in her eyes, and I reacted with full force, would she still have gotten the best of me?
I’d like to tell myself I would’ve bested her in a life or death scenario, but truth is I’m deeply uncertain of the outcome in that hypothetical.
Some gyms have these “enforcers” and are into this sort of thing. I hate that so much.
Not everyone needs humbling. And I think that’s the point that people here are missing.
If someone walks in and is calm, respects the fact that the trained person has something they don’t, and so on… even as a skeptic they’ll be relatively fine, and won’t get “wrecked” in most places, at least not on purpose.
It’s the guys that walk in thinking they’re about to roll over everybody with their big muscles that get rocked. But they usually end up being great people; just that finding out how much you don’t know is extremely humbling, extremely fast.
And I respect that a lot of people don’t believe it. I honestly didn’t myself. I get that; I’m not trying to convince you.
Many people do need that initial "this shit is real" check. If you don't tap, I will pop your arm. This isn't karate.
The mythos of jiu-jitsu is so much bigger than the reality. I say that with all the love and respect of someone who trains!
Size matters. Despite what the brochure says.
Each belt is worth about 10-20 pounds of weight. At brown belt, sure, maybe she can beat up a completely untrained 180-pound guy, but with 3 months of training the math changes.
I'm not saying "It isn't real" in an absolute "it never happens" sort of way. I'm saying that it's not true for 90% of the real-world use cases out there. People should train to be aware of their limits and to be fit and capable. But anyone thinking a 140-pound woman is going to terrorize some 200+ pound weight lifter is delusional and hasn't trained before.
I learned this lesson explicitly Karate when I was younger. I was the spazoid. Had to be told, no, we don’t go even 75% capacity in most exercises, let your opponent carry out the routine when it’s their turn.
Same thing with Olympic weightlifting. This is a very common phrase in my gym.
Snatching has got to be the most humbling barbell movement ever. Dudes who can easily bench over 100 kg (220 lbs) would never get to close snatching that. (Myself included, but hopefully one day)
I know nothing about Olympic weightlifting! What makes snatching so unique and humbling?
Aside: you don’t have to, but a one sentence definition of it would be awesome too - my lifting has been limited to the classic stuff, no fancy Olympic “bend and snap” stuff ;)
You pull the barbell up from the ground (like a deadlift) while dropping into a squat, and then get it up over your head while standing up. It is much more explosive than either the deadlift or squat separately.
Why… well, it’s a sport where you compete to lift the most weight. The other competition lift is the clean and jerk.
For my old ass I do it because it’s so hard and the rest of my life is fairly soft. Waking up and getting beat down by some snatches (or occasionally having a great session) keeps me level headed in other areas of life, I guess.
If you’re not a competitive weightlifter but still training explosiveness for other sports then you’re better off doing variations on the lifts. Like hang snatches, power cleans, power snatches, etc.
Totally fair, all of it. Thanks for the explanation. When you put it as simply as “it’s about who can lift more weight,” my question looks dumb in retrospect, of course.
It would be just as easy for someone to incredulously ask me why I love BJJ, despite being hypermobile and having a much higher chance of injury as a result.
It’s about what you love. That’s why you do it. That makes perfect sense.
The point is to use the explosive power of your legs to optimally throw & catch a very heavy thing over your head. It’s not designed specifically to work any particular muscle but test your overall capability. That said it’s much, much harder on core & shoulder stability in particular than either deadlifts or back squat. Or front squat for that matter.
Oly lifts are humbling in that being able to squat or press a lot of weight doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be able to snatch a lot of weight because there’s so much technique training required. The explosiveness and the sense of timing is very hard to learn.
To answer an aspect of your question that other commenters haven't addressed, the snatch works hip and shoulder mobility in a way that deadlifting and squats do not. The barbell is driven by the explosive hip hinge (unhinge?) directly up, so it is a departure from deadlift even if it looks like it would train the same muscles. Training your snatch lift in a non-competitive sense really exposes imbalances the lifter has. Your hesitance is really reasonable though, it's a non-trivial lift so coming into lifting completely new and trying to throw a snatch up isn't a very good idea.
Not that I disagree with your point, but... throwing your fight against the much smaller woman at the dojo is contractual. Weight classes exist for a reason.
Sure, and I'd agree with you if the much bigger guy could, I don't know... breathe. :)
Weight classes exist because they matter amongst opponents of roughly the same skill and training level. If one person is trained and the other is not, they matter a lot less.
You're not the first person to be surprised by this and challenge me on it. You also wouldn't be the first person to come to the gym, try to prove your point, and fail. :)
Everyone that has cooed grappled has a story like this. Part of the reason is practice, part of it is giving up before the fight even starts, but also that BJJ places constraints on matches in such a way that make physical characteristics matter less between hobbyists. BJJ–and even contact sports like MMA–don't resemble combat from any era of human history, so we might as well cut the pageantry and settle this by seeing who has more caterpillars in their bedroom right now. I've got at least a couple dozen.
Sure, but none of that contradicts anything I said, and... makes my point?
Within the constraints of BJJ, which I agree is not full-on combat, obviously... training matters more than weight or strength, a majority of the time.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is, and you definitely win on caterpillars.
We are in agreement on the point of the article. Next time, consider the state on your butterfly army before sizing up strangers below a navy seal dot com article, and you'll save yourself some embarrassment.
I've seen it more than once, and the most recent time was my buddy who showed up specifically trying to prove a point. He was untrained. She was very trained. He didn't succeed at making his point.
Having wrangled toddlers, I'm entirely onboard with the idea that a smaller opponent fighting in unexpected ways can be surprisingly difficult to handle even with a clear weight and strength advantage.
Training exercise is not the same as life-or-death conflict. It may also be the bigger person is holding back because they don't want a manslaughter charge.
Being relaxed is important in boxing too, if you don't stay loose and relaxed (other than snapping explosively when throwing a punch), it is easy to get fatigued quickly and also harder to slip or roll.
Yeah - I imagine that’s true for a ton of sports, but especially for any combat sport. I mean, even in shooting pistol (I shot sport pistol in college), breathing is the main thing you can control, and the main thing that will screw you.
The point is that staying relaxed in boxing during sparring or working the heavy bag feels counter-intuitive in the beginning. It seems like tensing up the core and arms would help punch harder, but you quickly learn that conserving stamina is more important than hitting as hard as you can (especially when starting) because otherwise you run out of gas pretty quickly.
in the dojo. IRL on the street adrenaline matters and fights end in first 5 seconds. You get stabbed or pushed/thrown/kicked in the face before you realize there was a fight about to happen.
What good is grappling with an opponent when his friend will just curb stomp you the second you both go to the ground?
This is the most common thing everyone loves to say whenever anyone says they study any martial art, and they use it as an excuse to study no martial arts, because "what's the point"
I never suggested that BJJ was going to be the only thing you should learn or know if you wanted to defend yourself in a fight. Cross training with some striking (muay thai, boxing, something) and/or weapons training? Sounds great, go for it.
To be clear: I have been in my fair share of fights, IRL. I've been stabbed twice. I grew up in Brooklyn and spent a lot of time in, well, less reputable bars and clubs. Most fights do not end in the first five seconds, and you should GTFO if you can, at all. Not fighting is the best way to win. If your opponent has friends with them, GTFO at any cost; that goes without saying. Most fights go to the ground, relatively quickly. When they do, taking their back and getting your hooks in is far better than mounting them, since you can absolutely control them from that position while someone else calls 911 and/or finds help to break up the fight you definitely didn't start, because starting fights is the fastest way to lose them.
As for "adrenaline matters" - this is explicitly why you train. It absolutely matters. But someone untrained will just spaz. Maybe they get lucky, maybe they don't; but they usually don't. Someone trained may not remember every single thing they know; but so much of it becomes instinctual that even with the adrenaline dump they are definitely not on their best game, but are still far more capable than the untrained individual. Furthermore, competing helps a lot with desensitizing yourself to the adrenaline dumps.
Also, "before you realize there was a fight about to happen" is not a thing. I have never been 'caught off guard,' because that is not how fights start. Yes, sometimes an idiot will throw a punch at a random person on the street; but that is absolutely not how most fights start. Well before a fight starts, you have already tried defusing the situation and de-escalating, because engaging is a last resort.
But sure, maybe their "friend will just curb stomp you" so you may as well just never try.
Well yes, sport jiu jitsu isn't street fighting. No strikes, slams, small joint manipulation. Soft mats to land on, strictly 1vs1, no weapons, and the list goes on. What use is grappling? It's quite a lot better than nothing in some situations.
They're not "practicing murder". They're not "practicing killing you". Stop with this hyperbolic nonsense. The military practices murder, not you and your mates in your local BJJ class.
Do you say these things to make yourself feel cooler/tougher when you inevitably tell someone you practice BJJ? And I'm sure they didn't ask, you just worked it into the conversation (much like this post) because you can't wait to tell everyone you practice murder.
No, not even a little bit; perhaps you might consider lightening up a little.
The point I was trying to make is that when you're on the mats against an actively resisting opponent who is, yes, attempting to break your joints (which is what happens if you don't tap) or choke you out (which is what happens if you don't tap), you don't have a choice but to focus on only the thing in front of you. Your brain and body simply won't let you focus on anything else.
"Practicing murder" or "practicing killing you" is simply a cute way (and obviously exaggerated for effect, since nobody's literal goal there is killing anyone) of describing that last paragraph without having to use all of the words in that last paragraph. I never said I was Deadpool; relax. It's a self-defense focused martial art which, in real life, you would use to prevent someone from causing you harm.
So no, I really don't think your comment or this one were necessary. It's pretty cynical to go from 'exaggerating for effect,' which is the obviously charitable reading, to 'mak[ing] yourself feel cooler/tougher,' which is the cynical reading.
I haven't been on the mats in over four years, because I had surgery and haven't gone back yet; I miss it. I definitely don't work it into "every conversation," because I am not the one-dimensional NPC your brain decided I was when it read my comment. :)
Everyone walks in, day one, and is dumping adrenaline everywhere they look. I mean, the person in front of you is literally engaging you in practicing murder, so I get it. Everyone starts that way. Super tense, super shallow breathing, and everyone wears themselves out in about 30-40 seconds. Of a 6 minute round.
Doesn’t matter if you’re the most insanely buff dude ever, or seriously overweight. The first guy has better conditioning, no doubt… but not this kind of conditioning. One of my favorite things was watching a new guy walk in, looking like he had maybe 7% body fat, 6’2” at least, plays D1 basketball, and is just nothing but stacked muscle… and then him rolling with a 5’6” 130lb woman who just wipes the floor with him, because training matters more than strength, but even more importantly, breathing and staying calm, slow, and smooth matters even more. The basketball player spends the first minute or so using all his strength to try and get this “puny” girl off of him, unable to, and is now completely gassed. Meanwhile she’s tapped him twice and could go for a run.
Eventually, the most important thing you learn is to relax and breathe. Technique eventually comes, through iteration and lots and lots of practice; eventually, things become second nature.
But breathing? Reminding yourself to relax and roll smart, not fast? That I need to remind myself of most days, because again: you’re facing someone practicing killing you. :)