Not having children is certainly not the ultimate sacrifice. That seems like a really silly sentiment.

I think suicide would be the ultimate sacrifice, although stupid for climate change. Ultimate because it’s the last act and ultimate because it’s everything that can be spent.

As far as difficulty, devoting one’s life to improving the environment is a bigger sacrifice than childlessness.

And raising positive children is much harder and more of a sacrifice than choosing not to have children. As far as difficulty, it’s like choosing to go to the gym two hours every day vs not.

Wether or not you consider it a sacrifice is really a question of frame of reference. I don't think there's any objective truth in it being a sacrifice or not.

However, given that the person I responded to want to have kids, I assumed that having kids was important to them.

And given that getting kids is basically something that you devote the rest of your life to it comes in the ball park of "as important to you as your life" if you choose to have them.

So to them, it ought to be an ultimate sacrifice.

Good point, sacrifice certainly has some subjectivity to it. If someone uses the term “ultimate sacrifice” then they are ranking sacrifices and have some rationale.

I don’t think there’s an objective arbiter, but for terms of communication there is some need for subjective consensus. I might view chewing sugarless gum as the “ultimate sacrifice” but many others will not.

I don’t think that choosing not to have kids is the ultimate or greatest sacrifice and I gave some of my reasoning. Perhaps if someone thinks kids are the sole purpose in life then giving that up would the ultimate, but I don’t know if that’s very common. And if so, would be quite sad as such a sacrifice for the sake of climate change would be so inconsequential and a waste (like ending one’s own life to prevent emitting carbon from breathing).

I agree with you it was needlessly rude and combative to say. Although I don't feel like I'm making a sacrifice by not having kids and I'm certainly not doing it to benefit that person's kids.

I just don't need or want any.

I only pull the "no kids" card when somebody who does have kids starts complaining about my greenhouse gas unit count.

Who said they are doing the ultimate sacrifice? What a weird comment.

For someone who wants to have kids it ought to be an extreme sacrifice since they will change most aspects of your life and you will need to spend so much time on them.

For someone who don't it's not a sacrifice. But the person I responded to obviously wants children. So for them it would be an extreme sacrifice to not.

Not having children is not a sacrifice

It may be for some people that make that choice. This whole thread reeks of people that cannot empathize with a perspective not their own.

How is intentionally choosing to not have children a sacrifice if you live in a western country? We're at a point where these countries need more people, not less, to have children. Having and raising a child is a difficult thing to do

There are many people who really, truly want children, who would be sad not to have them, but feel it is morally questionable-to-wrong (rightly or wrongly) to bring more people into what they view as a failing world. That is a sacrifice, whether you perceive it as such. It is people making an eventually irreversible decision to not live the life they want to live.

And I disagree with the idea that we need people. The capitalistic society we built needs more people, the planet most certainly does not. I do not think the needs of humanity are de facto more important than the health of the global ecosystem.

It isn't if you don't want them. But the person I responded to seem to want it.