Uh what? How could it do that. Fraud isn't even a technical layer issue. It's an identity issue and identity is pretty much entirely abstracted out of the crypto ecosystem. So, if you think about it that way, it's actually impossible for crypto to "mathematically prevent fraud". That you even said something so ridiculous without any reflection speaks to your intuitions in this space.
So what? FTX was a crypto company in the crypto economy, trading crypto products. this is some sort of no true scottsman crypto bullshit. the crypto economy clearly exists well beyond DEX's and its also pretty clear that the vast majority of the money is on CEX's so what's your point??
Okay we can use whatever language you wanna use, buddy.
The point is, if you self-custody your funds, no one can take them from you except by threatening you.
Everyone had their funds taken from them because they did NOT self-custody.
Everyone could have gotten all the utility of FTX (trading spot and derivatives) via a self-custody solution (a DEX).
Stop blaming self-custody solutions and stop trying to make self-custody solutions illegal. They literally mathematically prevent this type of theft and fraud.
If you are the one with a password aka private key to an address that holds the coins on whatever reputable chain, then you are the sole owner of said coins. It's that simple. Things get complicated, ironically for the sake of being less complicated, when there is a centralized authority in the middle who holds control of those addresses and their respective private keys.
I use centralized exchanges plenty, and I am also aware that it defeats a large portion of the whole trustless money thing. Therefore, I also keep crypto offline in cold storage. Those addresses and the coins involved will go with me to the grave or until someone threatens me with a hammer.
People really think "cryptocurrencies are based on code" means no fraud can happen with them.
The decentralized nature of most cryptocurrencies makes it difficult for a single entity to manipulate the market or falsify transactions, but it does not completely eliminate the possibility of fraud. In addition, the anonymity of many cryptocurrencies can make it difficult to trace the source of fraudulent activity, which can make it harder to prevent or prosecute.
No, people think that if self-custody your private keys carefully, nobody can steal your coins.
If you participate in actual DeFi where you keep your keys and participate via smart contracts, nobody can steal your coins.
All of this was true and is true. What happened is that corporations adopted the language of cryptocurrency to mean something totally different to trick consumers, like calling FTX a DeFi platform.
You want a villain, it ain’t the maxis who kept repeating “not your keys, not your coin”. It’s VCs like a16z, sequoias, and paradigm who lended credibility to centralized exchanges that defrauded people who ignored the cryptocurrency advocates.
The FTX story only strengthens the facts and narratives the cryptocurrency advocates have been saying. The real fraud is happening in venture capital which is rotten to the core.
And by the way, bitcoin is down this year but not nearly as much as VC darlings like Carvana and Affirm.
VC is the scam. VC is the engine of pump and dumps in both TradFi and crypto centralized exchanges. The real voices of cryptocurrency have been vindicated.
It has to do with FTX because people are taking the FTX situation and using it to blame crypto.
SBF stole users' deposits. Fact.
SBF could not have done this had FTX been a self-custody DEX. Fact.
Crypto's sole purpose is to prevent the theft that occurred. Fact.
The theft happened because crypto was not used. The theft happened because users did not self-custody (which they could have, as is demonstrated by the billions of dollars custodied in numerous DEXs today). Fact.
The fact that this happened in the crypto space is prima facie evidence that "Crypto's sole purpose is to prevent the theft that occurred. Fact." is wrong. Full stop.
You're conflating the entire crypto space (rife with theft and fraud) with funds self-custodied on a blockchain (never once has seen theft because it is mathematically prevented).
I'm not conflating anything. This is the crypto space. The crypto space isn't only DEXs, it's full of CEXs and its where the vast majority of money is.
And you don’t have the culture of controls that exist at real financial institutions. Often you hear a story of some firm like Amaranth or M.F. Global that blew up and what you always find is that the basic controls that prevent an organization from taking on disasterous positions are not in place.
It’s a simple truth that an investment fund that is getting more deposits from withdrawals can vaporize the money and not have any problems until people ask for the money back. That is why financial institutions need strict controls.
Theft and fraud aren't the same thing. Obviously, one can commit theft by the means of fraud. Fraud is a personal representation and trust relationship, and cannot be solved by a mathematical equation. A DEX might preclude the need for trust relationships in order to prevent the circumstances that make fraud possible, but it doesn't solve for fraud and, as FTX proved, crypto itself (using the commonly understood term, as opposed to the one you invented where the only things that are crypto are DEX) doesn't solve for fraud.
I've not at any point contested the differences between DEX and CEXs with you and you should really work on your reading comprehension so you can realize that.
??? Genuinely at a loss. You're conflating CEXs and DEXs to make a point about how "crypto does not prevent fraud". I said sure, if you want to include CEXs in "crypto" then "crypto" does not prevent fraud, but self-custody solutions like DEXs still do.
Because CEX's are undoubtedly part of crypto and nobody could say otherwise without being completely disingenuous. Which is exactly what our debate has been over.
I’m a crypto skeptic so I may be missing something. This sounds impossible. If users deposit to a wallet SBF has control of, he can fraud all he likes. It’s mathematically his money now. If users deposit but retain control of the wallet, it axiomatically isn’t a deposit.
* A contract (a piece of software) hosted on the network
* This contract is immutable (its code cannot be changed)
* This contract defines rules such as allowing deposits, withdrawals, and trades, and those functions of withdrawing deposits or enacting trades require transactions signed by the depositor
In that scenario, it is a deposit, is controlled (and thus owned, both legally and cryptographically) by the users.
In real life, these contracts are generally mutable, so there is the possibility that users can still get fucked over.
Contracts and law being mutable and open to interpretation by squishy brained humans is a feature not a bug. Yeah too much mutability you get room for corruption and selective enforcement/application, too little you have a contract that might do what it says or it might accidentally empty your bank account with no recourse because a flawed human implemented it and the world is complicated.
Sure he could have, it just might have been spotted sooner. How many pump-and-dump shitcoins have there been to date?
If "Crypto" has proven anything over the last few years the only thing it mathematically prevents is reversing transactions, which is really useful when you want to steal money.
There's no rugpulling possible if you don't give someone else your private keys. What is everyone missing about this? That's the entire glory of crypto. No one owns your coins but you... unless you use an intermediary. I'm guessing by far most transactions are done via centralized exchanges so that autonomy is lost both in practice and in headlines.
I'm fine with highly regulated exchanges despite that being counter to that glory of crypto. Also, move your large bags to cold storage.
Crypto mathematically prevents fraud. The problem here is that business was conducted in the fiat world and on a "trust me" basis.