If Musk actually said this he's an even bigger idiot than I gave him credit for. He makes the best cars in the world (obviously IMHO) and that's worth a lot more than 0. I couldn't give less of a damn if they can't drive themselves.
I ended up selling mine because the build quality started getting on my nerves. Misaligned panels that are "within spec" or interior rattles that make the ride completely unpleasant (at only 10k miles).
The tech is all right, and I got to try auto pilot at a discount. Unfortunately the phantom braking made AP completely useless with passengers who would freak out and complain. However, when it worked it was quite nice but I ended up using it way less than I'd hoped. Glad I didn't pay 12k for it!
The best part of owning the car was the insane acceleration and supercharger network at the beginning. But, that got annoying as more people started getting Teslas. Going on longer trips meant a ton of anxiety especially since some superchargers in cities would be packed. Worse, some would be out of order or slow charging. After the gimmick wore off, wasting 45 minutes to go another 2-3 hours started becoming annoying. And before someone asks why 2-3 hours, its called hills. California is full of them, and especially where I live I lose so much efficiency climbing hills.
Anyway overall I'd rate the car 5/10. Fastest car I've ever owned. Beyond that it was pretty much exactly as they described - a beta product. I'll probably try a Tesla again in 5-10 years.
This is mostly not my experience after 18 months but I appreciate your report. My car's build quality has been nearly perfect (which I didn't expect because of lots of contrary reports in 2020.) I tried FSD on the $200/month plan and I agree it's bad. The car stopped at green lights, kept going at red, turned right from the middle lane, etc. So I canceled it.
I live in the Rocky Mountains so I can relate about the hills, but haven't noticed a big range deficit from them. Probably because every uphill has a corresponding downhill and regen braking can recover some of the uphill energy loss. What I notice much more is wind. Driving fast into a headwind entails a huge energy loss (proportional to your airspeed cubed--yikes!) and it cannot be recovered. OTOH driving with a tailwind can add significant range.
I've also not noticed much of a problem finding open superchargers but that might be because I mostly drive in "flyover country." The supercharger network has also expanded significantly just in the 18 months I've had the car.
Can you blame us? The messaging from the company is both inconsistent and insane. I just call the built-in autosteer wizard "the lane keeper" now because that bypasses the terminology confusion. BTW it works reasonably well on the highway in good conditions. It's perfect as a way of taking a short break and stretching all 4 of my limbs during a drive, but that's the only reason I use it.
They should just rename Autopilot to some generic thing (but not Autopilot haha) like every other companies adaptive cruise control. Then use Autopilot for FSD.
As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass.
They'll get eclipsed by other electric car manufacturers real quick.
Edit: more specifically, the parts break and they are difficult to replace. The battery degrades. They stopped providing maps to the vehicle unless I'm willing to spend several hundred dollars to replace the media console, they've told me I'm covered by a recall/warranty but have been unable to schedule the appointment.
> As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass.
I agree. As a former owner. They are fun to show. But there are real annoyances. In the case of the Model 3 in particular, I quickly tired of the door handles. The psychotic windshield wipers. No CarPlay. The smartphone unlocking which worked most of the time until just that moment when your hands were full. It became a chore to live with. But dear god was it fast (I had the Performance trim). Not enough. I need my daily driver to not be a PITA.
I'm very interested in what the competition is doing. Ford one-upped the Model Y by putting that knob on the display and then adding another display in front of the driver. Most of the competitive EVs have real interiors, for that matter. All of them have CarPlay. Porsche made a legit sports car.
Thanks for this. I checked out a YT video about Ioniq 6 and was interested enough to look for the official page. (that matte black one looks pretty cool) [1]
But oof, the web site is just terrible. I can't imagine the effort that went into that car and then have it be paired with what they've come up with there.
I hope that competition rises to the level of Tesla on the product presentation / ordering side as well.
Ok? As a Model 3 owner for 3+ years the car shows well and has been rock solid this whole time.
> Parts break difficult to replace
I think I had a set of squeaky control arms that Tesla replaced under warranty in less than a week, free of charge. I don’t remember because it was such a nonissue.
Side swiped by another driver; dented my fender, bumper, smashed the headlight. Their insurance took fault, Tesla certified body shop gave estimate and fixed in less than a week (from the time dropped off).
> The battery degrades
Knew this going in. What battery doesn’t? Still comfortably road-tripping and camping with the family in my car.
> They stopped providing maps
Huh? I receive updates every time my car updates which is often. I’m guessing you’re talking the an older Model S.
> Recall/warranty and unable to schedule appointment
I’ve scheduled 5+ appointments with Tesla service center or mobile service through the app. Never been an issue.
On top of all that, my car is worth more now than it was when I bought it. Everyone in my family that drives the car loves it. The car turns heads and generates questions on the daily for 3+ years now. My young daughter’s friends still lose their mind when she gets picked up in the Model 3. It’s almost like owning a supercar without the price tag or the inconvenience.
So I guess different people have different experiences. But this is the first car I’ve ever wanted to drive until it dies.
Oh, and FSD certainly IS NOT worth it. And I doubt it will be anytime soon. :)
Yeah, I have an older model S. It could be my model just doesn't get the care that newer ones do, and my experience reflects an "early mover" experience. But I've had to replace door handles, sensors, memory, windshield, and a bunch of other stuff due to defects. The car stutters on the road at 50-55 mph, but is fine above that.
It was awesome in 2015. It's a pain in the ass in 2022.
True, 2015 Teslas are much different (read: worse in some ways) than 2018 Teslas. That’s why I waited for them to improve the technology haha. Been following them since the Roadster’s R&D. I remember having to convince everybody back then that electric cars were going to be viable soon - no one believed Tesla could do it back then. Crazy how things have gone since.
counterpoint: long drives have been improved significantly by Navigate on Autopilot, and the FSD Beta is nice.
example: I live in Houston and needed to go to Dallas for a work trip.
If my wife weren't using our Tesla that week (she drove it to Tennessee), I would have driven there (200-ish miles). I've done 1000+ mile trips with the Model 3 with zero issues, all because of "FSD."
Despite having another car that I really love, driving long distances manually is rough on me. So instead, I took an Uber Black both ways, flew, and rented a car in Dallas. (I expensed the UberX rate, so I paid the rest out of pocket. We are an hour from the airport.)
I don’t disagree. What I mean to say is that FSD is not worth $12k or whatever insane price it is today and there’s no sign that it’ll ever be worth it in the near-term 2 years. And when I say FSD I mean the literal FSD that’s supposed to navigate everything (city, highway, weather, etc) from one address to another address cross country with zero interventions.
With that said, yes I agree, highway driving with Autopilot is worth somewhere on the order of $1-2k to me personally. It’s made long highway drives a lot more pleasant — just used it this past July 4th for 500+ miles of highway driving.
I was prepared to buy a Tesla, and even planned on doing the full acceptance process (https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist) at the factory (a short drive from my house) but after Musk announced the Model Y was losing the radar and reading a bit more about their problems with FSD Beta (which I was planning to spend $10K to get), I concluded their cars were not the best in the world. I went and got a toyota which could pretty much have the engine compartment welded shut for ten years (modulo oil changes) and run perfectly.
It's a real shame because in principle having a manufacturing facility making great electric cars in the bay area would be a real win. Musk's reality distortion field is cracking.
IMHO, the best cars in the world are still Toyotas - not the bleeding edge, mind you, just more reliability, overall "gets out of the way and does the job" in the most effective manner possible.
With the supply chains this wild, and increased costs everywhere else, I’m also happy to be a Toyota owner. A healthy aftermarket for parts too just in case. And we get CarPlay!
It is a stretch, but they are clearly also not the worst. The company clearly has value without FSD. Not the value that the market currently gives it, but value nonetheless.
In theory if Tesla just figures out how to make batteries at scale they could be quite successful even if their sales numbers plateau. But in practice it doesn't seem like auto part wholesalers have a whole hell of a lot of power to set prices. Some of the better known brands are subsidiaries, and a few seem to have started as such.
I think his point is that FSD is an inevitability and when it comes it will generally upend the way we think about cars. Manual driving may always be a thing but it would become more of a passion than a way to get to work in the morning. The vast majority of value would come from autonomous transportation and logistics.
It was exaggeration as a figure of speech to suggest that if self-driving is solved, it will make the EV business look incredibly small.
What's shocking is how many people interpreted it literally--that the value is literally zero without self-driving--as if the successful EV business is in fact unsuccessful.
How are they the best cars in the world? I saw you add IMHO, but unless you mean it like children saying t-rex being the best dino, it really doesn’t bode well with reality.
Like, at least give one metric on which they are measurably “the best”.
