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In Poland, there is a LARP group that roleplays as contemporary Americans (twitter.com/penbercifield)
197 points by doener on May 29, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 99 comments


From the linked facebook page [0], translated with deepl:

> Larp 4 th of July is a morality drama about the lost American dream. It is a story about hope, about a small homeland, about searching for one's place in the community.

> On July 4, 1776, the United States of America declared independence. Newcomers from the Old Continent wanted to create a new state in America, built on democracy, freedom and equality. For decades, millions of people driven by the American dream were drawn to this beautiful country to finally become somebody, regardless of their birth or social class.

> More than two hundred years later, many Americans are living under different conditions than the nation's founding fathers imagined. Barely making ends meet, they strive to be family members and worthy Americans, despite poverty and exclusion. Though they live on the margins of society, their home - a small town cluttered with caravans and cottages wobbling in the wind - is for them the essence of 'the land of the free and the home of the brave'. This is a story about them.

[0]: https://www.facebook.com/4thofJulyLarp


Somebody with a facebook account needs to tell them that "caravan" is British English. We say "RV." "Cottages" is a bit dicey, too. To Americans, a cottage sounds fancy.

edit: didn't register that this was an autotranslation...


Thanks for sharing. It gives more depth to the images and tells the story behind those images better imho than just the Twitter feed.

I did fantasy LARP in my late teens till my early thirties. And when organizing cons we would often have an underlying subtle theme that aimed for societal issues.

But this shoots our meager things way out of the water.


If you want more, there is [0] a background PDF. But with 13 pages it’s over the limits of the free version of Deepl, so you’d have to translate it piecemeal ;)

[0]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DTQg-17wEJCFQqK4I9xfyEQgI5a...


It sounds like the "man, are we glad we didn't emigrate" club.

...

This is America

Don't catch you slippin' now

Don't catch you slippin' now

Look what I'm whippin' now

This is America (Woo)

[...]

Grandma told me

Get your money [...]


Everyone calling it "the land of opportunity" has no idea how expensive living inside is now and how little opportunity there really is. You might make a lot (although only if you are part of the PMC, laborers don't make enough to live which is why so many have dropped out and there's a "shortage" despite a surplus of unemployed men) but it nearly all goes to rent.


> how little opportunity there really is.

It's called the yellow Sun effect. Superman, an alien who is born for the red Sun of Krypton gets superpowers under the yellow Sun of earth.

As an immigrant, everything feels an easy mode (once you've paid your dues). The other side of this is that when you are from here, you grew up on easy mode, so it just feels like 'normal mode', which gets difficult the moment things go a bit difficult.

I have seen 2 BD apartments in NYC with 3-4 Asian families living there, and they still would rather be there than back home. While you think there's little opportunity (probably because those 3 families purchased that 2bd apartment for $700k which you want for your 2.5 kids family, and you can't afford it), whereas for them its opportunities everywhere.


This is quite true. Immigrants are more than willing to do what they can so that their kids have a better shot at life than they did, and the effect of that is that they will outperform the locals with great ease.

But the second generation is not going to be made of the same stuff, they tend to be soft. And in extreme cases end up being either statists or right wing because they find that they are more afraid of new entrants spoiling their easy lives by association.

It's a weird case of pulling up the ladder behind you, and I never understood any of this.


It's funny how clear things are from the outside when you're not exposed to American propaganda.


this is perhaps one of the most mainstream narratives about america present in media and writing


Maybe the whole world is simply behind the times.


Can you expand on this more?


LARP-ing is becoming incredibly popular here in Poland it would seem.

I have some acquaintances who do a very involved War in Vietnam LARP with several dozen guys going out to Polish mountains for a week or two to pretend they're U.S. Military. It's very important to them, lots of attention to detail, lots of rules on how to stay in character.

It's fascinating to see Americans' reactions to these things. I don't think collectively Americans seem to notice the extent to which their culture has inundated the world, especially places like Poland where USA obsession is rooted in the 1980's and 1990's.


When I visited Belgium a few years ago, one of the things that really stood out to me was all the ads for American media and brands. Netflix, Marvel movies, Patagonia clothing, and more. It had been 25 years since the last time I visited Europe (a business trip to Bavaria) and the change was really remarkable.

I now understand Rammstein's Amerika better.


Even when visiting Western Europe coming from the Eastern part of the continent one can very easily have the same impression. For example I find that France is quite obsessed with the US and, dare I say, it also has a small inferiority complex (which, in a way, the US also holds when it comes to France). All the daily action now for young people happens just outside the cities/towns, where you have all those hyper-markets and fast-food joints, similar to the “spirit of the Mall” that came from the States. NBA is also pretty big, no wonder Tony Parker has become such a star.

Northern Italy is pretty similar, for example LeBron had lived there for a while and was an AC Milan fan, there’s commercialization of everything, a feeling of “you don’t really live if you’re not shopping”, that sort of stuff.

Again, the US holds its own Europe-related inferiority complexes, that’s why I think this cultural dynamic between Western Europe and the States is pretty interesting.


> the US holds its own Europe-related inferiority complexes

Does it? Most of the folks I know here think of Europe as quaint, and have never actually been there or want to go. We do seem to think that Europe has the skin and hair care advantage though, as pretty much any upscale products in those markets are branded as being European.


Most of the folks I know here think of Europe as quaint

Every US political discussion on just about any topic always has very vocal group shouting some variation of "why can't we be more like Europe?" Often these people have a very naive or outright incorrect view of how things actually are in "Europe", but they definitely seem convinced that things are much better there.


Couple years ago there was a Worms LARP in Poland. Yes, the game. People dressed up as worms, there were rules about movement in each turn, throwing granades etc.


Is there another group that is LARP-ing as Viet Cong?


No opponent actually, only jungle-like military operation.


From Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash:

> McDonald's is Home, condensed into a three-ring binder and xeroxed. “No surprises” is the motto of the franchise ghetto, its Good Housekeeping seal, subliminally blazoned on every sign and logo that make up the curves and grids of light that outline the Basin.

> The people of America, who live in the world's most surprising and terrible country, take comfort in that motto. Follow the loglo outward, to where the growth is enfolded into the valleys and the canyons, and you find the land of the refugees. They have fled from the true America, the America of atomic bombs, scalpings, hip-hop, chaos theory, cement overshoes, snake handlers, spree killers, space walks, buffalo jumps, drive-bys, cruise missiles; Sherman's March, gridlock, motorcycle gangs, and bungee jumping. They have parallel-parked their bimbo boxes in identical computer-designed Burbclave street patterns and secreted themselves in symmetrical sheetrock shitholes with vinyl floors and ill-fitting woodwork and no sidewalks, vast house farms out in the loglo wilderness, a culture medium for a medium culture.


My first reaction was to be mildly bothered by the overwrought stereotypes on display. On second thought, having lived in rural America for most of my life, I can verify that this is about as accurate to life in rural America as most LARPs I've been in are to life in medieval Europe. That is: fantasy unencumbered by research. As in all things, I hope it's done out of curiosity and not with a sneer at people's misfortune, but fair play.


> sneer at people's misfortune,

I wouldn't be surprised if this is mixed in. People love to see the mighty fall. I was surprised how much of the throwaway news filler in Europe is about random Florida-man stuff.

Although, to me, it seems like the main motivational force for this is "nostalgie de la boue", a desire to participate in trashy low-life culture. It has positive connotations too; a temporary freedom from mores and responsibilities of civic life. Mardi gras, music festivals, St Patrick's day, ... they all are an opportunity to let loose.


> I was surprised how much of the throwaway news filler in Europe is about random Florida-man stuff.

I'd guess that that's mostly because the Joe from Florida is both far, far away (so they can publish unverifiable bullshit) but also culturally adjacent and his exploits or misfortune more relatable than, say, a guy from Uruguay or Vietnam. Also you wouldn't believe how many trash articles start with "American scientists".


Well LARPing is about fun. The stereotypes displayed are pretty tame. Real life could be stranger than fiction. Pennsylvanian church worshipping AR-15s https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/01/589808670...


Do they carry red cups? I bought some after dropping the pint glass I use for drinking cold water, but apparently they were redesigned.

(I've actually never been to Poland, got the sense hosteling in the EU that folks have a very warped view of Americans... we usually just have a few bottles of Yuengling and watch Die Hard, not shoot an AR-15 in the air and launch salvos at our neighbors.)

This is funny, except for the one getting faux arrested.

(I used to read about your not so secret police during in school suspensions, because I'm autistic.)


The Eastern Europeans who came to visit me in the USA wanted to try two things: Red Solo Cups and Smores.


Smores I understand, but red Solo cups are literally just cheap plastic cups.


People always identify them with America because they see them in movies. They used to be really hard to find in Europe when I moved here 10 years ago. We tried getting them for an American themed party but the only places were online specialty shops that sold them for more than 1€/cup.

Now however they can be bought in the grocery store. Still overpriced but reasonable enough.


No, they are premium disposable [0] plastic cups. Most people here had far cheaper versions, when my US roommate brought Solo Cups, I was amazed how thick and stable they were.

[0]: Of course, you don’t dispose them, but that’s their league.


Ohioan by birth. I'll give it to them.


Seconding (also an Ohio native). The woman with the Ohio State top, the one with the Browns jersey guy sitting down in the background and the arrest were gold.


That Tim Couch jersey is really the best photo in the bunch. I'm originally from southeastern Ohio but I was born in Pittsburgh. A Steelers fan living in Ohio notices these sorts of details. If I happened to be back home in Ohio for some reason and I ran into that guy on the street, we'd strike up a short conversation for sure. Whether by accident or on purpose, Browns jersey guy nailed it.


This reminds me of that show Duck Dynasty where a family, against all odds, accomplished the American dream and spent all their earnings on like pickup trucks and not moving to a place with more opportunities


Except for American flags I don’t find any of this recognizable.


And to me, it reminds me of home. It probably depends where you've spent most of your time in the country.


Sent this to a few Ohioan friends and they promptly and proudly replied that the LARPers nailed it.


Do Ohioans have boxing matches in the forest?


Casual boxing rings in forests at night with suit-and-tied refs seem to belong more to the old, weird America of Desolation Row than the worn out Walmartland of today.


Hahaha omg is this real, hilarious - where can I see more?



Amazing. I wonder if they speak English too, I'd love to join.

Detected at one fail at least though, these are clearly Europeans: https://i.imgur.com/lw0ujOG.jpg


Ohio


Searched for "cultural appropriation", found nothing. Wow!


Poland is quite influenced by US, down to using american accent in spoken English. Neighbours are more influenced by UK.


I always thought the accents in English were driven less by country and more by specific teachers. In France I taught a lot of college students in English and their accents varied a lot depending on who had taught them English. Some had perfect British accents, others clearly American.


In countries that do not dub their movies/TV (which I think both Poland and France do?) I imagine that has a huge influence.

And today probably even more so from youtube/twitch/tiktok/etc.


Oh man you are in for a treat :D So not only does Poland tend to have dubbing, they traditionally had a single "lektor" doing the dubbing in any given film or show. One guy, usually older, reading the Polish lines for all the characters. Here's a nice article on it, but there's a video after a few paragraphs if you just want to see what it's like.

https://www.chido-fajny.com/2017/10/polish-lektor-one-weirde...


Polish here and ... I hate dubbing! It's like buying a Lambo and changing it's wheels to the ones from ford fiesta ;-) It is still a Lambo, but something quite not ok. ;-) In a times when I did not know a single thing about English it still did matter to me to hear real actors as voice is not only a words, but entire different word of emotions expression and it is a different experience when you get immersed into movie by million dollars actor then one who gets a couple of thousand at most just for dubbing. Another thing is that dubbing always sounds very artificial. And it is not only because it is hard to lip sync one lang in another, but also because background sound (noises etc) are very very hard to recreate in dubbing environment so most of the times watching such a movies feels like putting your TV on mute and playing something else instead.

BUT... it is slowly changing in Poland. Movies and cartoons for kids and a lot of these aimed at kids and adults are dubbed nowadays.


Have you seen how German dubs are made? They're usually some of the best dubs (across all languages), but obviously still noticeably dubs.

Depending on the content it can sometimes come close to the original, it's definitely very different from a single person reading all lines in a neutral tone (which I personally consider absolutely horrible, and I'm very glad that Germany only uses that for interviews on the news)


> Germany only uses that for interviews on the news

Yeah UK news is the same - someone speaking over the original audio which is audible but played at a lower volume. At the risk of introducing yet another tangent here, there's a funny twist to this. A few decades back the UK bizarrely had rules that Gerry Adams' (leader of Sinn Fein) voice could not be used on media broadcasts[0]. So you'd see footage of him with another guy's voice dubbed over it[1]. This was even parodied in comedy news show The Day Today[2] to great effect :D

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%931994_British_broa...

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WQXQbDpIdY

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR6jGJ1lq2U


> They're usually some of the best dubs (across all languages), but obviously still noticeably dubs.

Maybe, but the issue is, that they now sound like German actors. Who suck. I’m German and I almost didn’t watch Dark because I expected it to be as unnatural sounding as any other German show. I’ve heard that it’s because actors here learn acting for theater instead of for TV, but I’m not sure if that explains it (amongst other things, because Dark did not have that issue).

IMO the best dubs are from the Nordic countries, those often speak English well enough that they just dub themselves, and that really shows in the quality of the dubbing. Israel is another country where I’ve heard great dubs by the actors themselves.


my dad (american) visited germany to work on his german skills and watched "The Big Lebowski". He said the Germans in the movie were given russian accents.


> BUT... it is slowly changing in Poland

This is good news, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to watch a film that way. Czech versions supposedly have relatively good translations and dubbing, though I've not tried to watch anything other than The Simpsons. Interestingly there's a TV comedy about those responsible for the dubs: https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/11104009943-dabing-stree...


My Polish friends lived in the USA for a decade but there were still times that they definitely had some UK pronunciations on words.


I think our teachers teach British English, American English is at most a side note during classes. No offense or so, but British sound to me personally like something that requires more effort thus kind of more "??sexy??" - if you know what I mean


It surely is, the infatuation in the 1990s must have been insane. I think Polish employers' treatment of workers is a product of that and high unemployment of that period. "Januszex" mentality is still going strong.


This was not true before the 2000s. British English was predominant, and may still be.


Netflix drives the accents nowadays.


Good effort but I don't think anyone from Ohio wears chelsea boots.


I have, just not when I’m in Ohio.


Cool, but they need better props. Where are the guns? Surely someone in Poland owns a pickup truck. They also look far too healthy.

Canada has a thriving American larping community too: Alberta. Also Vancouver, but that is mostly US celebs pretending to still be in america, which is cheating imho.


Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic (or regionalistic) flamewar. Last thing we need here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


There is not enough tailgating (party) action. No drinking out of the back of a pickup truck. No kegs in sight. Not a single dually. No Bud or Miller beer cans punctured with a 12 inch hunting knife being chugged out of their side. No wine bags hanging off tree branches with trashed sorority girls slapping them. No McDonalds or KFC visible on any tables. No chips either. Nothing has bullet holes in it. Needs more squatted trucks, donks, homeless encampments, choppers, fentanyl, heroin, cocaine, meth, weed, cigars and gang activity. It's too unrealistic.


> beer cans punctured with a 12 inch hunting knife being chugged out of their side

What's up with that? Why would anyone do that?



Surely air must get into the can somehow when you are chugging it - why not speed up the process.


You can consume the entire can rapidly. It's sort of a bro ritual.


I almost forgot a few things: large white styrofoam drinking cups, lean/purple drank with promethazine (thanks for reminding me, Mike Jones), "grillz", and huge gold chains worn around the neck reaching down to the waistband.


I mean, I'm from Alberta originally and I trash it all the time, but you shouldn't tar the whole province with the same brush. It's mostly just rural and southern areas and the smaller cities (Red Deer, etc.) that this stereotype comes from. Take a look at a provincial election results map for Edmonton, it's almost all orange.

Also, historically southern Alberta was settled by Americans while central/north by Ukrainians, Germans, and Brits. Where I grew up rural west of Edmonton was more blue collar and small mixed farms and predominantly Ukrainian descent, and the whole stereotype of country music and cowboys didn't reflect my reality. It was more perogies and polka than rodeo and yee-haw. Though that stuff sorta came into the picture later.


Edmonton is the SF or NYC of alberta. Go to the northern half of the province. Good luck finding a driveway without a pickup truck. I was there for two months before is saw another 2-door non-muscle car.


Funny analogy. In the 90s we called it "Deadmonton" and people into interesting music and clubs usually ended up driving down to Calgary for activities. And then eventually moved to Vancouver. (I moved to Toronto instead)

It does seem like a city improved these days. I like going back. I'd personally move back if my kids weren't tied to their schools here. I'm not afraid of winter!


Eh. Friends from Alberta like to say this. But the reality is that almost every district in both Calgary and Edmonton is held by conservatives and has been for decades. The picture is far less rosy (Hah!) than you're making it out to be.


Edmonton ridings are on the whole conservative federally, but definitely not provincially where the Alberta New Democrats absolutely dominate Alberta ridings by a long shot, and even Calgary has started to swing this way. This has frankly to do with the history of the federal Liberal Party in relation to the oil patch etc. more than it has to do with people's ideological positioning. If you poll these voters on issues they tend to be centrist or left wing. Like most Canadians.


Meant to write "dominate Edmonton" ridings too late to edit.


All pickup trucks in Poland have been sent to Ukraine and are now used by the Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces


Poland is seizing private property and sending it to Ukraine? Yikes!


He is pulling your leg. We Slavs enjoy this kind of banter.


Presaging Poland's upcoming seizure of Black Sea coastline...


They can be found at any surplus store. Unlike Syrian rebels, Ukraine will surely remove your plumbing company decal.


Throw in a camo hat and yeti branded goods.


None of them are fat enough to convincingly pull off American. We're a portly bunch.


Living in Japan, every time I see video from someone's phone from some American street, all I can think of wow, everyone one is so big. There's not even a mix, everyone is just big.


In California it's different, to see the American footballs (tiny head tiny feet everything in between gets bigger and is biggest in the middle) you have to be like...in certain wings of hospitals I saw some folks at that weight. Yeah I remember perfectly, fattest I had seen in my whole life, looked like upright blimps. So some parts of hospitals, and also...downtown Walmart, though there they're not in such bad shape, unless they're in a cart.

But mostly you don't see them, they stay at home watching those with the opposite weight disorder so they look good on the interface between the famished and the gorged...the TV. I went to a lot of castings and the women who really got work looked skeletonized, you have to look bad to look good on TV.


More like not self-hating enough.


What does LARP stand for?



There was already a correct answer but you have to try to be cute. What sense does that make?


He's teaching this person how to use internet tools to look up the answers to questions.

The expression is "Give a man a fish, and you will feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you will feed him for a lifetime."

For the person on the other side, if they are familiar with the idiom, they will fill-in the rest of it, and realize that they are being taught a useful skill that will help them in their life.

Being allergic to fish myself, but one who loves fishing, this one never really worked for me, but it works for most people.


Live Action Role Playing


Thanks!


Huh? There is no end to how niche subcultures people can invent to have a club/community.


Euros wishing they were Americans. Sounds about right.


You had to go and make a nasty comment.

You know, EU and US have many cultural differences, but the commonalities are more important. We are freedom loving societies and we created the Western world together. When you look at the big picture, comments from people like you, who want us divided, are really rounding errors.


Looks to me like they are mocking poor uneducated Americans. That's being nasty. Making fun of "White trash" might be entertaining to you and them but to me it is bigoted and hateful.


You're the one using the term white trash. In fact you're the ONLY person in this thread that used that term.

Maybe that's what you see when you look at those pictures? That makes you the bigoted one.


When they dress up like “Americans” and their costumes are sourced from a single socio-economic context in America that has well know stereotypes, no it is not me being the bigoted one. I’ve been called white trash you don’t need to lecture me on it.


Maybe you've been called white trash for being bigoted? I don't know.


That's a stereotype that most of us would like you to reconsider.




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