So the government is not a legitimate democratic representative of its people? I didn't realize the colonels were still around. Give my regards to Papadopoulos.
On a more serious note, Greece is a wealthy (by world standards), educated, well-informed society. It is open to the world. It has open press, the internet, freedom of assembly. It has elections, and has replaced several governments when it wanted. It has a sophisticated intellectual class, which is perfectly capable of articulating ideas about social structure to the people. Can you tell me what more, exactly, does Greece need to become responsible for whatever is done on its behalf?
What you wrote in another message - "why pay taxes to a government that you feel doesn't represent you" - is the biggest thing that's wrong. You have to pay taxes because it's the law, and the government is the government, until you vote the next one in. If everyone evades taxes until the government does exactly as he wants, nobody will ever pay taxes.
Oh, and the Greeks are not "oppressed", economically or otherwise. You'd think they were being forced to toil in salt mines and fed gruel.
So you think America has a wonderful democracy too? We're wealthy, we have a constitution, we have a sophisticated (well...) intellectual class, and yet my taxes are still used to murder impoverished people around the world, support autocrats, make Goldman Sachs executives rich. But I suppose that's what we voted for after all, right?!
Greece may have a more democratic government than Saudi Arabia. That doesn't mean its people's interests are represented. They may be one of the more open and prosperous societies in the world, but even the most open and prosperous are run primarily for the benefit of special interests. I didn't think that was controversial.
"What you wrote in another message - "why pay taxes to a government that you feel doesn't represent you" - is the biggest thing that's wrong. You have to pay taxes because it's the law, and the government is the government, until you vote the next one in. If everyone evades taxes until the government does exactly as he wants, nobody will ever pay taxes."
You seem to believe that a government is legitimate simply because it is in power. To me this is both a spineless and a dangerous position. Every third world dictator hosts sham elections and of course they use your exact argument when their people complain. "But we have elections! We have parliament! If you don't like the course we are on, you are free to change it at the polls." The first world is more sophisticated in its deceptions, but the outcome is similar: the government is run for the benefit of powerful interests at the expense of the people, and election law is carefully manipulated to maintain this state of affairs. Intelligent, ethical people will reject this ruse. Legitimacy must be earned.
"You'd think they were being forced to toil in salt mines and fed gruel."
I suppose it's very easy for you to spout your trite little sarcasms from a position of comfort and privilege. Let them eat cake!
Yeah, you've got a pretty good democracy in America. The reason that it seems like it's always "more of the same, no matter who you vote for" is that the government actually has external constraints on what it does. Bush did a lot of the unpopular things that he did because he couldn't find a better way, not because he has a heart of pure evil (hard as that can be to accept). So Obama comes in and starts doing a lot of the same things, and people are surprised.
> You seem to believe that a government is legitimate simply because it is in power.
No, go ahead and overthrow dictatorships, but it you've got a government that you voted for, with a constitution that you approved, kindly follow the law. And elect another government if you want.
> I suppose it's very easy for you to spout your trite little sarcasms from a position of comfort and privilege. Let them eat cake!
You do realize there is no shortage of cake in Greece, let alone a shortage of bread? But, whatever. The oppressed masses shall rise up and throw off the chains of their class enemy, and then retire at 45! Or how about "workers of the world, unite and claim your union patronage appointments!!" Hey, these are catchy. "Burn down a bank, teach a lesson to the capitalist bloodsuckers who financed your house!!"
>What you wrote in another message - "why pay taxes to a government that you feel doesn't represent you" - is the biggest thing that's wrong. You have to pay taxes because it's the law, and the government is the government, until you vote the next one in.
The upper classes are the worst tax avoiders. It's unrealistic to expect the lower/middle classes of the Western world to pay higher taxes and get less.
From talking to Greeks, is seems that tax avoidance is a way of life for everyone from barbers and mechanics to doctors and homebuilders. Maybe the very lowest income brackets are not in on it, but it's definitely not just the billionaires and the evil globalized megacorps that everyone loves to hate.
On a more serious note, Greece is a wealthy (by world standards), educated, well-informed society. It is open to the world. It has open press, the internet, freedom of assembly. It has elections, and has replaced several governments when it wanted. It has a sophisticated intellectual class, which is perfectly capable of articulating ideas about social structure to the people. Can you tell me what more, exactly, does Greece need to become responsible for whatever is done on its behalf?
What you wrote in another message - "why pay taxes to a government that you feel doesn't represent you" - is the biggest thing that's wrong. You have to pay taxes because it's the law, and the government is the government, until you vote the next one in. If everyone evades taxes until the government does exactly as he wants, nobody will ever pay taxes.
Oh, and the Greeks are not "oppressed", economically or otherwise. You'd think they were being forced to toil in salt mines and fed gruel.