I currently work at Google, but I am a newbie, i.e less than 5 years at Google.
I frequently run in to people who are:
1) always been at Google and enjoyed the fruits of its rise or at another similar environment
2) never had to deal with frugality or lack of funding for anything
3) see themselves are superior to everyone else - in terms of how enlightened they are, how they know whats best for everyone
4) feel that they have an absolute say in anything Google does
These people do not know the realities of the world. Plain and simple. They had a good life and think that is it.
One thing they dont seem to realize is that almost everyone else has had to deal with growth challenges, lack of capital and access to resources. No one exists to only make the world better. Contrary to their disbelief, most people and organizations, including themselves and Google, have the first priority to survive, to grow, to flourish and to abide by all applicable laws. Once this is satisfied, they move on to grander things like charity, investing in the well being of others etc.
The very reason these people have the capability to leave their jobs for whatever reason is that they already took care of the first priority - to survive and thrive, courtesy Google.
Google is a business, and as a business it has the fiduciary duty to serve itself and its interests first.
If these people have any conscience that they claim to have, they need to stop pointing at Google, stop riding in their luxury SUVs, stop eating in insanely expensive restaurants, stop vacationing in luxury resorts, stop purchasing multi million dollar homes, and first go try to serve in the government to change the laws and society in which we all live and abide by.
Stop trying to tell a large corporation to stop doing business and make profits, go change the society in which it operates. Then we will talk.
Enough of the BS.
You dont like working here, move on. Let us have the opportunity to contribute and grow and be successful.
Hiding behind "it's a business" isn't an argument acceptable to most people.
Sure "it's a business" but does that give it a green card to act how it pleases?
We're getting into the philosophy of what we want businesses to be in our society. More and more people are realizing that the inhumane structure a business operates in isn't acceptable to them, and would like to have a say in what they're doing.
This person left Google because Google was getting into the business of killing people - sure you might be comfortable with that. But your opinion isn't any more valid than someone who doesn't work in Google.
So please, stop telling people how to behave and act and protest. We're not putting in 100 hour weeks because someone before you had the audacity to go say the current system is inhumane.
You don't have to be that person, but you also don't have to be the person who stands in their way.
> Sure "it's a business" but does that give it a green card to act how it pleases?
of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law. Do you not act as you please? Do you not eat a $40 meal while a homeless person is lying outside in the cold? DO you not send your kid to a private school at $100k/year while the kid down the street (down the highway) struggles for school supplies?
> So please, stop telling people how to behave and act and protest. We're not putting in 100 hour weeks because someone before you had the audacity to go say the current system is inhumane.
I am not tell you how to behave, I am tell you to not tell the company how to behave. You are free to leave and go do what you think is right.
> As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law.
> Stop trying to tell a large corporation to stop doing business and make profits, go change the society in which it operates.
This comment posits that companies act in a closed system. Companies don't just act within the boundaries set by the law, they actively seek to directly change laws by lobbying and to change the interpretation of laws through litigation in order to best suit their interests. They are political agents as are their workers.
It might bring more gray area into your life but like it or not what you do for your day job can have moral implications. You may have taken this post as a personal attack because you work at Google, which may be why you are so vociferously arguing against it. But even if one disagrees with where this person drew the line I think it behooves everybody to at least occasionally reflect on the ethical implications of how they spend their time, especially in tech where what you work on can easily affect millions or billions of people.
I'd hope this discussion would be more about the merit of where this line was drawn in this case rather than whether or not one is even justified in taking a moral stance instead of just putting their head down and shutting up or quitting.
Please - quit your overpaid tech job and actually work to change the status quo. No one is saying you have to accept the status quo.
But your lectures while driving past the homeless in a $100K tesla on your way to swank vacations are tiresome - particularly as you build that money off the status quo you are so eager to say is terrible.
> Please - quit your overpaid tech job and actually work to change the status quo. No one is saying you have to accept the status quo.
False dichotomy. You don't need to quit your job to work to change the status quo. Indeed, you can often effect change much better from inside an important organization than from outside it.
Please - cash your big checks built on the back of misery and then complain to the company about their violent attacks on your "physical security".
You don't need to change your job - but if you are getting paid very well to do a job, then posting long internet postings about how terrible it is to work at an "important organization" risks getting you some eye-rolls.
Unless you're actually doxxing the parent commenter, you're assuming a lot there. I have no doubt that plenty of HN contributors are actively working to change the status quo. As for $100k Teslas, personally I have no intention of ever buying a car again, let alone a $100k one.
> The company is just an entity that needs to follow the set of guidelines set by people living in that society.
Those guidelines are the laws. We elect congress and a president who passes laws, and what those are comes back to us.
Within those laws, we have capitalism. If company A goes beyond that, and company B doesn't, guess who survives?
Pressuring an employer to act outside of those bounds isn't helpful. What is helpful is realigning incentive structures at a system level. Radical proposals -- like eliminating NDAs, mandating open source for firmware, right-to-repair, and so on -- feel oppressive when one looks through the lens of private right to contract. When one looks at a systemic level, they result in much greater freedom for everyone.
Most executives would like to be good, but they're between a rock and a hard place, and walk a thin line. Laws are what determine where that line is.
> of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law.
This, it's even mandated by law to appease shareholders by making as much money as possible. Google changing their ways might just increase the number of shareholder x company lawsuits their legal team has to sort out.
"modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so." --Burwell vs. Hobby Lobby (US Supreme Court, 2014) [0]
That same argument justifies slavery because it was legal, since slavery makes profits. Your argument is also subject to the ad-hominem logical fallacy [1], and does not actually counter the idea that Google is harming society and that employees should contribute their efforts elsewhere. Additionally, this appears to be the author's attempt to change society, to the greatest extent they can do that is unique to them. They do however, volunteer extensively, in their "Beyond Google" section, weakening a significant part of your ad-hominem argument.
Overall, the author is right in trying to promote people to leave Google, as remaining quiet weakens the whole point of them leaving.
> Once this is satisfied, they move on to grander things like charity, investing in the well being of others etc
This is true for the author as well. He worked at google for 15 years, he is probably a multi-millionaire. It's easy to take a stance once they money has been raked in.
Google presented pitches to customers and employees alike that it cares about things like sustainability https://sustainability.google/, along with a breadth of other commitments https://about.google/commitments/ and I'm sure you'll find more examples if you Google Google.
All employees, contractors and business partners who are working with or for Google have had those or similar pitches thrown at them. They are hopefully part of the reasons why they chose Google and each has a right to complain when they don't get what they signed up for.
If people apply their conscience anywhere then great, but surely one step at a time, maybe the author will run for president one day, fix homelessness and buy everyone SUVs, but we can only do one battle at a time and it seems like he's got some good domain knowledge about Google to tackle this one.
I font work at Google, but it was exactly my thought when I read >”I’m not switching to another employer – instead, I hope to spend my time working on justice issues, and on growing and strengthening the nascent tech labor movement."
Basically, Google paid them enough to retire early, and they cashed all those checks and now want to bite the hand that fed them. Must be nice.
No company is a benevolent hand feeding you – it's a machine for making the owners and decision-makers as much money as possible. If you get something out of it in the process, that's just luck. So biting is the correct reaction to the company's bullshit.
Honestly, Im inclined to agree with their general worldview but their arrogance and elitism disgusts me, especially as someone valued at a fraction by the fair labor market.
Your inferiority complex on every Google post is quite disgusting too. No one from Google has said anything to you or done anything to detriment your career. If you don't like your current job move to a more "elite" place instead of projecting.
What is your plan here ? Go around the globe convincing everyone. Go to any bar in Europe and say you work for Google vs say you work for Amazon. See what reactions you get. Google has a higher reputation among the masses. Doesn't matter if it's warranted or not. You can't really win this fight.
If Amazon is a top tier employer + payer (on par with F&G) as you claim, you should definitely be able to. Whether you wish to do so is your prerogative.
I frequently run in to people who are: 1) always been at Google and enjoyed the fruits of its rise or at another similar environment 2) never had to deal with frugality or lack of funding for anything 3) see themselves are superior to everyone else - in terms of how enlightened they are, how they know whats best for everyone 4) feel that they have an absolute say in anything Google does
These people do not know the realities of the world. Plain and simple. They had a good life and think that is it.
One thing they dont seem to realize is that almost everyone else has had to deal with growth challenges, lack of capital and access to resources. No one exists to only make the world better. Contrary to their disbelief, most people and organizations, including themselves and Google, have the first priority to survive, to grow, to flourish and to abide by all applicable laws. Once this is satisfied, they move on to grander things like charity, investing in the well being of others etc.
The very reason these people have the capability to leave their jobs for whatever reason is that they already took care of the first priority - to survive and thrive, courtesy Google.
Google is a business, and as a business it has the fiduciary duty to serve itself and its interests first.
If these people have any conscience that they claim to have, they need to stop pointing at Google, stop riding in their luxury SUVs, stop eating in insanely expensive restaurants, stop vacationing in luxury resorts, stop purchasing multi million dollar homes, and first go try to serve in the government to change the laws and society in which we all live and abide by.
Stop trying to tell a large corporation to stop doing business and make profits, go change the society in which it operates. Then we will talk.
Enough of the BS.
You dont like working here, move on. Let us have the opportunity to contribute and grow and be successful.