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A cool idea that I'd never ever ever try. Half Life 1 on low res was scary enough.

In all seriousness though – is there any studies done on potential PTSD-like effects that arise from this sort of VR game?



This is the kind of the inverse, but apparently they are treating Veterans with PTSD with VR: https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/innovation/how-virtual-reality-...


BraveMind is a heck of a system for sure. The 'guided' part of it really is a step forward.

Over at Children's Colorado and they are also trying out VR for pediatric pain management. It seems to be effective thus far.

VR's killer app may well be Alyx, but there are a lot of potential uses that are out there that can really help out.


At first I got really excited, but the thought of walking through Ravenholm in VR made me uncomfortable and increased my heart rate. I'm a big wuss, so I don't think I'd handle scary games in VR. The headcrab jumping towards the camera in the trailer was bad enough.


I'm also not a fan of things jumping out at you but I think it's going to be like food that's too spicy but you keep eating anyway. The adrenaline of the time critical puzzles and gunfights should make up for the scary bits.


I play mostly FPS games in VR. To be honest stabbing a dude was a pretty jarring experience the first time I did it in VR. I also remember hitting the ground pretty hard the first time I heard rounds whizzing over my head. But that kind of adreneline pumping experience goes away really quickly. Once it's normalized your body stops having a reaction to it.


As a counter anecdote, I had no such reaction. It felt no more "real" than a game played with my mouse and keyboard.

The only time I hit the ground was when I tried to go into a crouch and had the floor height misconfigured. That left a mark.


Actually VR games and simulations reduce the likelihood of developing PTSD.


Specialized programs utilizing VR can reduce the severity of PTSD, that does not mean all VR games reduce the chance of developing.


Especially as compared to a non VR game, which would probably have far less chance of developing


Compared to what?


War obviously.

Kidding aside, it does seem like VR probably has value as a kind of exposure therapy..


Or to put it another way it desensitizes people to violence.


It can. And if you're the victim of violence, that may be desirable.

Likewise, if you have a fear of spiders bad enough that it interferes with your quality of life, you likely want to be desensitized to spiders.


VR therapy for fear of spiders made the news [1] a few years ago, so it's quite possible there's been more (professional?) progress in the field.

[1] https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/16/technology/fearless-vr-spid...


I wonder how far that could go. If you had people play as spiders could you get people to actually sympathize with spiders?


If it were part of a designed and controlled therapeutic program maybe.

But a regular and 'by design' aspect of a game, presumably online?

Dunno if I, as an arachnophobe who plays plenty of games online-trust griefers not to ....well grief with that kind of power, heh.


Well, I was thinking something like a single-player game where you are the spider and, through the course of whatever the gameplay entails, you struggle as a spider to stay alive. This could perhaps build empathy for spiders and cause people to think twice before casually killing one. So beyond conquering arachnophobia, what if we can give people a positive affinity towards spiders?

A multi-player spider game sounds potentially terrifying.


I read a while ago in an article from the APA that soldiers who completed VR simulations of trauma were better able to handle stressful situations.


Real headcrabs, probably


Source?



[The efficacy of virtual reality exposure therapy for PTSD symptoms: A systematic review and meta-analysis](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01650...)


I see no mention of VR Games. I am fairly certain the ` well-controlled sensory stimuli` does not cover the latest shooter from the video game industry.

I would agree that VR can help with PTSD, but only in the same way as drugs can help with disease. Doesn't mean to say that drugs don't also cause huge problems.

The devil, as always, is in the details and life is not simple.


You can't develop PTSD from VR because VR isn't real. Even if you get scared it's not the same kind of fear as being in a situation where you can actually get hurt, or die, or you actually kill another human being.


>You can't develop PTSD from VR because VR isn't real. Even if you get scared it's not the same kind of fear as being in a situation where you can actually get hurt, or die, or you actually kill another human being.

Weird, this study shows the exact opposite with regards to regular video games.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6370668/

Conclusion from above study:

>Accumulating evidence led to a clear consensus that a high frequency of exposure to violent video games significantly alters important interpersonal behaviors in negative ways (Bender et al., 2018). Atypical disadvantageous defensive reactions and higher vulnerability to PTSD symptoms, revealed in the present study, add to other shortcomings for the heavy players themselves.

I would assume the same in VR, if not more significant as it is more immersive than regular video games.

I do not have a study for VR video games however as I do not know of any that have been done off the top of my head.

I would like to add, I by no means want to make light of the impact PTSD due to real life trauma. I personally know a few people who suffer from being in active combat and would never wish that upon anyone.

I personally feel that PTSD developed due to real life trauma will always be far more severe than any sort of PTSD developed through video games or other virtual means.


That's a very deceptive study. The actual results were: non-players froze when faced with a gun while players reacted more actively (increased body sway):

From the discussion:

> Non-players exhibited an immobility-like reaction.

> Heavy players behaved as if “jumping the gun”, increasing mobilization, instead of immobilizing and waiting for the best chance to get rid from danger.

> Indeed, “... the simple sight of a weapon increases the likelihood of aggression if the person has mentally paired a weapon such as a gun with killing or hurting people...” [Anderson and Warburton (2012), p. 72].

> This is the case for heavy players of violent video games who are frequently exposed to weapon use for the purpose of killing and hurting others.

The authors are trying to say video games provoked more violent reactions. Well, to me it sounds like video games have educational value: players immediately recognized the danger represented by the weapon and reacted more aggressively. Did the non-players freeze because they did not know how to react to the danger?

Their arguments don't seem to be specific to video games. It seems to be about exposure to weapons in general. It's not clear what this result means. Games trained players to respond differently but is that good or bad? Does this mean players are less likely to survive violent encounters? Does this mean players will defend themselves more effectively? How do people who went through real firearms training respond in the same conditions? I don't know.

The PTSD stuff is also deceptive:

> Scores on the PCL-C hyperarousal cluster were also significantly higher for heavy players (Z = -2.08, p = 0.04).

That's the only significant difference. Emotional numbing, avoidance and recollections were not present. Hyperarousal includes symptoms like imsomnia, irritability, anxiety... The potential for confusion here is significant.

There's no way this particular study establishes any causal relationships.


Unless you're a pilot, try using good a VR airplane simulator for a while (DCS World for example), getting a feel for the airplane and then push it until you crash into the ground. The moment you loose control and start falling towards the ground, you start panicking, even though you know it's a game.

While not PTSD, I can totally imagine you can find ways of using VR to cause PTSD or similar. Like forcing someone to have a VR headset on with disturbing experiences for a long time and the person would surely eventually go insane.


X-Plane also works with VR (and arguably better, as with VR enabled aircraft you can actually use the controllers to pilot).

VR definitely triggers more areas in the brain than just a monitor as I can empathize very well with the feeling you describe. Supposedly fans modified Alien: Isolation to work with VR. THERE'S NO WAY I'M TOUCHING THAT. Subnautica VR is "bad" enough :)


After trying both X-Plane and DCS: World (and a couple of others, waiting for to see if Microsoft's Flight Simulator manages to include VR or not as well), X-Plane's VR is definitely good but DCS: World is way better. It seems to operate way smoother. I'm more of a fan of using joysticks instead of the VR controllers as well.


Sure X-Plane "supports" VR but it's so badly implemented that you don't get any immersion at all. The brain is not tricked when it's running at 30 to 45 fps.

The controllers are pretty much useless. Your hand shakes a little and suddenly the yoke is at 90 degrees deflection because there is no resistance.


Don't even need VR to feel that. I distinctly remember playing Tribes or Tribes 2 and using the jetpack until the juice ran out; free falling from a large height gave me butterfies in my stomach, if that's the correct phrase for it.


But does your body and the non-rational parts of your brain know that it is not real?


The short answer is yes, I replied to the other comment with several citations.


> Of course, if virtual reality is real enough to treat the disorder, could it still cause it? Rizzo doesn't think so. "I think that somebody would have to be psychologically compromised to begin with to mistake the events that go on in the virtual world for real events," he explains.

Rizzo thinks you can't because it doesn't seem real, not because there's no actual danger. Make it seem real enough, and their point doesn't stand anymore.


[citation needed]



The Engadget article just says "probably not" and doesn't provide any sources.

The Popsci article says there are no studies pointing one way or the other.

The CNN article only talks about PTSD in a quote from Google's Daydream View saying it can cause it.

The Quora answers are interesting, but still hardly support that strong claim, they're at most an educated guess.




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