Last year, at age 35, I started drinking heavily. I would buy a bottle of Absolute and would not stop till I see the bottom of it. 2 bottles a week at min. About 5-6 months, I've stopped drinking without anyone's help.
Yesterday and today, I'm having a strong urge to get completely wasted. Just go to the store around the block, buy bottle of Absolute.
Yesterday, while driving on I-695, I saw a guy with a child seat on the back seat and thought to myself: "I want that too".
Tristan O’Tierney dies at 35, survived by his three-old-year daughter.
There's an old Irish saying that goes "A man takes a drink, the drink takes a drink, the drink takes the man." If you have a drinking problem, you just need to avoid drinking period.
I have some close friends that have drinking problems and what I learned from their experiences:
1. If you're an alcoholic and think you can handle a single drink, you're lying to yourself.
2. It's honestly not worth it. Life is better than being stuck in a multi day binger. The physically effects are taxing on the body.
3. You'll always have those urges and that feeling of wanting to drink isn't as bad as the act of actually drinking and the damage the follows.
If you have those urges, attend AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) and refresh yourself on why you don't drink. I remember going out to dinner with a friend and the waiter knew my buddy. During the conversation he asked would I like something to drink. When I said no, he asked if I was a "friend of Bob". At first I had no clue what that meant and asked who was Bob. Later I found out he was referring to the founder of AA.
I personally don't drink around those that battle with drinking. I understand the struggle.
Stay sober. Reading about Tristan and it reminds me of all those people I lost as a child. I watched so many friends OD to heroin and other drugs.
One thing I'd put out there: AA is great if it works for you, but it's not the only game in town and can be hard to love. If it doesn't work for you, SMART and lifering are both popular and well-validated options.
I agree it's not the only game in town for sure. One close friend actually has learned to replace his addiction with working out. There's certainly a strong correlation of Alcoholism and OCD.
Once in a while he'll have dreams of drinking or the urge to drink. Whatever works to keep you sober and healthy, go for it!
> 1. If you're an alcoholic and think you can handle a single drink, you're lying to yourself. 2. It's honestly not worth it. Life is better than being stuck in a multi day binger. The physically effects are taxing on the body. 3. You'll always have those urges and that feeling of wanting to drink isn't as bad as the act of actually drinking and the damage the follows.
Worth noting that #1 is AA dogma and is certainly not a medically proven thing. About 5% of people who go through AA eventually get sober, roughly the same as other treatment approaches (many of which skip the disease model of alcoholism entirely).
IMO, the AA notion that you are diseased for life unless you turn your life over to a higher power (which looks suspiciously like the personal god of Western Protestant Christianity) is poison.
There's so much I would like to say about this, but let me try not to let this get out of hand.
a. The people I know attend AA are not religious and they don't enjoy that aspect of AA.
b. They refuse to take medication like Disulfiram (Antabuse) and rather deal with their addiction by attending meetings.
c. I'm not sure if you are an actual alcoholic, it sounds like you're not, but I would advise you to be cautious about what you're saying here. If you deal with Alcoholism, there's no "final" cure. You are aware of that right?
People who deal with Alcoholism don't view their addiction as being "diseased" and AA doesn't suggest that as well. You might want to read the Big Book which is available online. I read it to understand what my friends actually deal with.
I'm not even sure what you mean by "disease model of alcoholism". It sounds like your knowledge is not only superficial, but poorly researched.
> If you deal with Alcoholism, there's no "final" cure.
This is precisely it. You fight it continuously and always assume you are going to mess things up even when you think you're 'finally' strong enough. Just being constantly paranoid about slipping back into old habits. It's no joke and there's no panacea.
This comment broke the site guidelines. We ban accounts that are repeatedly uncivil here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules in the future, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are, we'd be grateful.
It certainly has it's roots in religion, but it is also effective. I have 2 friends that attend AA and both are atheists. One friend has been attending AA for nearly 35 years and the other 10 years. The latter friend did have a relapse after 6 months of not attending AA. So he now makes it a point to attend AA only to remind himself why he's sober.
In any case, it's not a bad starting point. If it doesn't work, I'm sure you'll find suggestions there for alternatives.
Yeah, he could also have issues with PTSD, Bipolar, Anxiety, Depression or other mental health issues where going to see a professional and getting medicated or going through therapy is far better than going to AA meetings and just hoping he'll figure it out.
I'm surprised you were able to function the next day with that amount. I recently turned 30, and I definitely cannot drink as much as I used to. I get an allergic response to alcohol, which really sucks because I used to enjoy it. There is a mutation in OPRM1 in certain populations that causes your opiate receptors (particularly mu subtype) to release endorphins when drinking. I've definitely had that happen to me when I used to drink heavily. But that changed when I took LSD-25. While I still drink, it is nowhere near the same level as when I was younger, and I attribute that to my psychedelic experiences. Stay strong.
You’d be surprised how much a person can routinely drink and still function. I grew up and now work in a high alcohol abuse area, and some of the folks that were abusing surprised me. Sadly, I’m sure when their body said enough it came as a surprise to them too.
I spent ages 19-26 essentially spending 100% of my free time 4-6 days a week inside bars.
At its worst (at 6 days/week), I was keeping changes of clothes at work, closing the bar, fooling around with someone for a few hours and then going back to work.
At 26 my drinking started to trail off severely and I had sort of a breakdown...moved somewhere else for a few years.
I don't really know what motivated me to drink like that or to stop. Luckily, I can drink socially without issue and I maybe have 1 or 2. Any drinking (socially) I do is maybe once or twice a month now and I don't spend any time in bars.
I have seen a lot of other peoples' lives ruined by drinking though. I'm lucky that the worst I have to deal with is some extra weight and an aversion to going out to drink. Like the parent post says, please keep safe.
It's important to say that the way of drinking is probably everything. No shots, avoiding sugary mixers, avoiding beer if possible (at least the cheaper ones), never mixing different alcohols (even the same type, but of different brands).
The worse you feel the next day after alcohol means the more significant damage you did to your body. If you feel fresh, it says that the damage was almost non-existent (besides liver, which, if you drink a lot of alcohol you should take care separately). Then drinking a lot of water before going to bed will help your body to clean from alcohol.
It's all about alcohol-drinking culture. In some countries drinking alcohol 2-4 times a week is normal (as long as you don't drink to get wasted). But I have seen places (for example Ireland), where drinking to get wasted is an ultimate goal 2-4 times a week. That's the problem imo. Better education and public awareness would help a lot.
Alcohol is a diurrhetic. The worse you feel the next day is entirely caused by dehydration. It has nothing to with what brands you drank and more to do with how dessicating your drinks are. Beer contains more water than liquor.
Drinking water doesn't "clean" you, it stops your kidneys from failing altogether.
You should always pound down water after heavy drinking. It's the only physiological cure for hangovers.
There are societies that drink a lot of alcohol and live long lives by following local "rules" about drinking. People in those societies live long lives.
So I disagree.
A good way to test it - do it yourself. You will see a noticeable difference. Go in the evening after the gym. Hydrate yourself through the day and you will see a huge difference in performance.
There is quite a lot of talk about it in sports/gym circles for many years.
Try it, then try drinking only one type of better alcohol. Compare how you feel the next day. That should say a lot. It's rather common knowledge that is not proven scientifically.
There has been a lot of talk about it for years in many sport/gym related communities. Those people know how to observe their bodies and reaction.
This is super interesting, as someone with that mutation that gets extra sedated/euphoria from drinking and is predisposed to alcoholism, from a family tree full of alcoholics.
What do you think the lsd did to dampen the effects on opiate receptor to release endorphins? I have experimented with naltrexone and it works well to block my opiate receptors when drinking. It just scares me that I'm blocking all euphoria and how I'm messing with neuroplasticity and encoding long term memories... Thoughts?
similar situation -- have had a lot of success with nal. but now curious about the neuroplasticity you mention. curious if you have any further reading on this. I'm reading Pollan's new book "How to Change your Mind" and it makes me very interested in exploring LSD more for similar addiction purposes.
in my younger years, up till about 26, i could get drunk and show up to work at 9am the next day, ready to go.
i’m almost 30 now and i literally can’t drink a single beer without feeling hungover the next morning. if i drink 3 or more, i might as well call in sick. as a result, i just stopped completely. there’s other ways to have fun that don’t make me feel terrible.
I had the same experience, but took hbws seeds (LSA, similar to LSD). Would not have gotten out of it otherwise.. luckily, my allergies also blossoms when taking a drink, reminding me how bad it is.
I'll do a checkup, thanks for pointing this out. I've already tested myself for all types of allergies and other related issues, weird that none of the doctors pointed out sinus issues.
I am allergic to alcohol too, always have been. Drinking causes my skin to turn bright red, and it makes me feel like I'm on fire. Burning pins and needle all over my body, especially the soles of my feet. It's excruciating, and as a result I don't drink.
LSD is an acid, literally, maybe it just burns the receptors. Non of that experience talk. It's not an opiate anyway but the body can produce neuro transmitters on its own, if you are paradoxically happy about intoxicating yourself. If somehow this pathway is interrupted, I'm not sure that's a good thing. Alcohol in great masses can have the same effect, after all, if the drinking at some point only serves to feel miserable, lacking the joy and done only out of habbit.
I actually have found small doses of LSD have helped me lose the desire to drink. There is legitimate research happening that shows this is a real phenomenon...unsure about the science but for me it’s a cleaner better “high” with no hangover effect and not nearly as toxic (if at all)
Suggesting the use of a recreation drug to combat addiction is very dangerous territory. I'm glad it helped you. I am no stranger to recreational drugs and have witnessed some friends suffer from addiction. One particular friend had a coke problem. That person managed to quit coke and became a drunk. Then eventually was able to quit drinking and got addicted to downers. Through out this person's life they took lots of random psychedelics so that certainly was not a cure for them.
Psychedelics are not necessarily recreational drugs. The ideal way to use them in service of stopping addiction is within the context of therapy: usually a few sessions of talk therapy before and after the long session where the drug is administered in a safe, conducive, and clinically supervised setting.
It’s like the difference between self-medication with a friend’s Xanax vs having a diagnosis and a prescription from a doctor or psychiatrist. Only aside from some promising studies with psilocybin and MDMA, you can’t legslly have a psychedelic experience in that kind of context yet in America.
There are people who do it underground, trained therapists I mean, though I have no idea how one would find them.
Fair enough. I guess I get nervous that people might miss the whole therapy part and think you just have to go tripping on friday night and suddenly all your problems are solved :)
Whoops, I didn’t realize that I was replying to two comments by the same poster! My response above is the better one, and I’d have left it at that. And your note of caution is a good one, I just wanted to provide some additional context. Babies in bathwater and all that.
Yes. I had heard lots of advice from Random Internet People that using the plant kratom was very helpful in killing your desire to drink. Now, I'm addicted to the (opiate-like) effects of kratom. It's actually maybe a bit healthier for me than alcohol, but doesn't feel any better mentally or emotionally.
In case it needs to be stated - please don't take illicit substances because a random poster on an internet forum tells you it's helped in x or y ways.
(For the record, I do believe this class of substances can help a lot of people. Do your own research, know your own body, and think for yourself before making a decision that can have possible adverse effects)
Unless it's LSD. I enjoy LSD as much as anyone here, but it's globally illegal.
And it's pretty unlikely that anyone is posting on HN from the international space station, so it's safe to say that LSD is definitely illicit regardless of their location.
I think I used to think like this, but realized it doesn't particularly accomplish anything. Moving our collective walls takes concentrated, but subtle effort.
It seems like this was therapy that happen to leverage small amount of mushrooms. Maybe this is a good combo, not sure. But I have years of first hand experience with friends who are life long smokers and have taken mushrooms and LSD multiple times a year for decades. I really have not seen a relationship between quiting smoking and mushrooms.
We’re they taking the psychedelics with the intention of trying to quit smoking, or just to get loaded and have a weird night? If it’s the latter, I wouldn’t expect any change in smoking status, outside of a chance epiphany about what it does to the body.
There’s the idea of “set” and “setting” for psychedelic use. A (mind)set of “party time!” and a setting of “party time!” is unlikely to be effective in the way that a set of “i want to quit smoking” and a setting of “quiet, safe surroundings” would be.
Intention and preparation matter with these drugs—though they’re apparently no guarantee either.
In their cases it's always for a fun weird night at a music festival etc. But that's sort of my point is that I don't think quiting an addiction is a inherent characteristic of mushrooms but possibly a complement to therapy.
Isn’t this stance completely dismissive of methadone clinics approach to addiction? If the individual can break a stronger and more dangerous addiction with a less addictive and dangerous substance then it’s a net positive on their addiction journey but not the final stop.
“No Link Found between Psychedelics and Psychosis: A large U.S. survey found that users of LSD and similar drugs were no more likely to have mental-health conditions than other respondents”
The personality changes are real. Psychedelics fixed my autism. Or at least, taught me how to cope with it in a way that’s compatible with a good social life and less suffering.
Base rates, my friend. LSD can trigger dissociative type states in a very, very small percentage of the population. Compare to the far more statistically likely damage of alcohol.
LSD does cause permanent personality changes. That's what makes it such a beautiful compound. For me, it permanently altered my openness to experience, made me more intuitively empathetic, and improved my communication skills (the last two are two sides of the same coin). As a result, I am more well-adjusted, better able to communicate, more in tune with people's unspoken emotions and better at dropping into that unique state of vulnerability that we often call love. *
Your mileage may vary.
* Actually, psilocybin mushrooms were my first psychedelic so I credit them with that more than LSD per se. LSD was like the icing on top, really.
> As a result, I am more well-adjusted, better able to communicate, more in tune with people's unspoken emotions and better at dropping into that unique state of vulnerability that we often call love. *
I find it difficult to call someone well adjusted when they are dependent on a hallucinogenic drug to cope with reality.
I can’t speak for the person you are talking to, but I feel the same way he does so I think I can help explain. I don’t depend on psychedelics on an ongoing basis. They taught me how to think in a different way. They are part of my education.
I’ve seen the damage that drug addiction can do, so I understand your caution. But they are nothing like addictive depressants or stimulants. The drugs are actually somewhat unpleasant while the effects take told, and you feel better from the after-effects when they wear off. You also get a lot of tolerance after a single dose. This means that the compulsive redosing behavior that leads to dependence simply doesn’t happen.
You hit the nail on the head. Once you've "gotten it", you don't need to continually re-dose psychs. You always carry a piece of the experience with you.
A relative of mine is a drug addict. It started with light pill abuse in his late teen years. Then turned into a serious opioid addiction a few years later. There is wide debate on susceptibility to addiction in terms of things like personality or genetics and so on. Whatever the case his personality certainly seems aggressively directed at being easily prone to substance/drug abuse and to seeking it out. Once he became a full-blown opioid addict, the ability to control his general problem with addiction of course went out the window, it pretty well destroyed his life.
His mother refuses to help him get treatment via for example Suboxone, because she says that's just a crutch that keeps you addicted (equivalent to your reference of replacing one substance with another). Meanwhile, instead, the out of control opioid addiction continues threatening his life. The core of this issue is that not all substances are created equal in their consequences. Suboxone may be a form of crutch, and crutches are often very useful when you have a broken leg.
I've known a few people with opioid addictions, the only ones I've ever seen able to control it had to use treatments like Suboxone. In that case, replacing one substance with another, means regaining control over your life (while you hopefully pursue long-term therapy to permanently kick the addiction) and being able to live mostly normally.
One of those people was a fairly close friend. She had a problem with addictions over many years. Alcohol, cocaine, lighter pain killers, and so on. She was always able to walk back the addictions, until opioids. Once she became an opioid addict, there was no walking that back, it took over every aspect of her life. All of her thinking shifted to short-term obsession to fill the craving. Her entire life became a fireball of destruction: thieving, lying, anything necessary to get the next fix. When you're consumed by that addiction, there is no long-term thinking, there's no next month or next year, there's only sating the drug addiction. When the doctors began cutting off her drug access one after another, she eventually even turned to getting various prescriptions for her dogs. Then buying opioids illegally on the black market. The person you used to know, no longer exists while this is going on, they're an addiction zombie that can hardly be reasoned with (they'll say anything at any time to avoid a discussion or intervention). That whirlwind went on for a year plus, until one day she took Suboxone. I'm sure it's not for everyone, I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone; in this case, it was like a miracle. One day she was an out of control drug addict, a week or two later she was back, normal, able to think long-term again, able to hold a job and reason normally. It was almost as though the prior year had never happened. It's wild to witness that transformation occur in such a short amount of time. So long as she took Suboxone on schedule, she was no longer an out of control opioid addict. She could then pursue a long-term strategy of opioid addiction therapy. Sometimes substituting one substance for another, is about managing addiction in the relative short-term through a better process, so you can work toward the long-term goal of ending the addiction.
Your mention of susceptibility to addiction reminded me of a sad irony. The population that's among the most susceptible to addiction are those with untreated ADHD. ADHD impairs your ability to consciously choose your actions -- many doctors think ADHD is a misnomer and Executive Functioning Disorder would be a better one. It drastically increases one's stimulation-seeking behavior, since adrenaline acts as a form of natural medication. (This is why you find higher-than-expected numbers of first responders and military personnel with ADHD, and why they tend to be so calm in a crisis.)
Unfortunately, recreational drugs are a one-two punch. First, the activity of taking recreational drugs is highly stimulating in and of itself, due to its risk, which means that the simple act of taking something, anything, can become damn near irresistible. Second, the effects of many of these drugs actually do end up acting as a quasi-medication. Cocaine, for instance, is quite chemically similar to Ritalin; meth is an amphetamine like Adderall; opiates seem to act almost as stimulants for many with ADD (including me), and also help to deaden the hyperactivity a bit; alcohol mercifully slows down your thinking; and so on.
The irony then is that many drug addicts would significantly benefit from a prescription of Adderall or Ritalin, but unfortunately these medications are very difficult to have prescribed if you have a history of addiction. I understand why this is the case, but I can't help but feel sad for those who unfortunately may never get the treatment (or even the diagnosis) they need to rein in their lives.
How many people have died from LSD? Surely some addictions are better than others. If he had replaced his alcohol addiction with chocolate wouldn't that have been better?
If you need help with the alcohol I can't recommend The Sinclair Method enough. Absolutely life changing for myself and many others. https://reddit.com/r/alcoholism_medication
Not sure if you've tried this but it helps me when things get out of hand; check out /r/stopdrinking
Just talking about it with other people going through the same thing helps a lot. It's almost always worked for me and I tend to get a hold of things before the spiral further out of control.
Don’t risk doing permanent damage to yourself. Peripheral Neuropathy and other CNS issues caused by heavy alcoholism may not go away.. If you’re still able to think and feel normal now you’re at a good stopping point and are lucky. Once you tip into permanent damage it’s easier to keep drinking to treat the symptoms, pain, or insomnia caused by chronic alcoholism. It’s hard to fall asleep when your nerves feel like they’re on fire.
The only end is death when depending on bottles a week.
I have chronic painful peripheral neuropathy from alcohol abuse. I wouldnt describe it as being on fire; however, more like random jabs from needles on top of a constant numbness associated with your feet being asleep that no amount of movement or rubbing can satisfy. The doctor prescribed neurontin which I took for a year while unemployed. It made me incredibly drowsy while only marginally helping with the pain. When I started working I chose to discontinue taking it and just live with the pain as I found myself unable to stay awake while coding. It's funny at times to be sitting in a meeting trying to listen to someone while not expressing outwardly that an invisible dagger is being driven into my thigh. :)
Good for you for stopping. If you need further help, you can find a medical treatment program through your doctor that prescribes antabuse or naltrexone. Antabuse makes you vomit and have extreme nausea if you drink. That may help curb the physical dependence and feelings since your body will associate alcohol with being poisonous.
Impressive that you quit on your own and see the important things around you that will keep you on the path to get those for yourself. You should be proud. Hats off to you.
Do you mean Absolut or “absolute alcohol”? Seems odd that if it’s the former you’d buy so much and still misspell it.
If it’s the latter you should surely not be able to tell the tale.
From that sense I guess people get wasted with only a few sips of Absolute are gifted. I could never get to the point where I could consume a whole bottle of Absolute in a single month. It was way too strong for me. Beer do me good though, I last a few pint before I fall asleep. And that is good enough for me.
I have seen people who can keep drinking what I thought were literally diluted Alcohol. I guess your body takes damage without them knowing it.
Yesterday and today, I'm having a strong urge to get completely wasted. Just go to the store around the block, buy bottle of Absolute.
Yesterday, while driving on I-695, I saw a guy with a child seat on the back seat and thought to myself: "I want that too".
Tristan O’Tierney dies at 35, survived by his three-old-year daughter.