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> Imagine the autopilot is 100 times safer than human drivers.

Is it? Can it be proved controlling for all variables?



No it is not. But might be someday. Will that be good enough? My dad would spend 100k on a car that was 10 times less safe, if it let him keep using a car. I'm sure others would as well.


The proper way to prove "it's 100 times more safe" isn't to let it cause some number of deaths and then go "welp, we tried our best but we were wrong, turns out it's less safe. Shucks". But that's exactly what Tesla, Uber, etc. all seem to be doing. "We'll compare our statistics once the death tallies are in and we'll see which is safer".

The most we have to go on for a rough approximation of safety is the nebulous and ill-defined "disengagements" in the public CA reports. From what I can tell, there's no strong algorithmic or safety analysis of these self-driving systems at all.

The climate about these things is sour because the self-driving car technology companies seem to want to spin the narrative and blame anybody but themselves for the deaths they were causing, and just praying they'll cause less of them once this tech goes global.


> the nebulous and ill-defined "disengagements" in the public CA reports.

The usual description of disengagements: "Disengage for a perception discrepancy" or "Precautionary takeover to address perception".

Except when referring to others, then its plain English: "Disengage for a recklessly behaving road user" or "Other road user behaving poorly".


For clarity on this point, "disengagement" has a specific meaning to the California DMV[0]:

> For the purposes of this section, “disengagement” means a deactivation of the autonomous mode when a failure of the autonomous technology is detected or when the safe operation of the vehicle requires that the autonomous vehicle test driver disengage the autonomous mode and take immediate manual control of the vehicle.

However, some self-driving car manufacturers have been testing the rules quite a lot by choosing which disengagements to report[1]. Waymo reportedly "runs a simulation" to figure out whether to include the disengagement in its report, but there's no mention of what the simulation is or how it might fail in similar ways the technology inside the car did! Thus, the numbers in the reports are likely deflated from being actually every single disengagement.

[0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/d48f347b-8815-458e... [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/sel...


And even this pathetic and tootheless regulation was enough to drive Uber from California for a while.

With all the games they play with the numbers, Waymo still reports 63 safety-related disengagements for a mere 352,000 miles. This doesn't sound like an acceptable level of safety.

The surprising part is that it appears that Waymo is planning to start deploying their system in 2018. How can they even consider it with this amount of disengagements?


> No it is not. But might be someday. Will that be good enough?

I'm cynical enough to want to wait for it to actually be that good before bestowing the marketing goodwill on the company.

"Might be someday" doesn't really cut it for me any more.

Let's wait until we get there, then evaluate the situation.


Your dad would be happy to get a car that was 10X less safe, but the rest of us on the road will be less so.

These are public roads, driving a dangerous cars put other people at risk.


What fraction of current drivers are 10x less safe? Probably all 16-20 year olds.


Probably around 3-4x[1], but point taken.

Inexperienced drivers cannot be avoided, but many states try mitigate the risk by limiting teenage drivers.

But my point is that whether to allow a vehicle that is not safer than a reasonable human driver should be not left to the car owner alone - there are other stakeholders whose interests must be taken into account.

[1] http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/teenagers/fatalityfacts/te...




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