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They did actually make suggestions, despite not campaigning to form a government. For example, an Australian style immigration system, striking a trade deal with the EU, continued cooperation in defense issues and so on. You just ignored them.

Unfortunately it's rather hard to make plans about leaving the EU because the EU itself is in a catatonic state of denial. Their glorious leader banned even writing things down about the possibility of exit before the referendum, and afterwards announced they would still refuse to discuss it until Article 50 is invoked.

This total denial of reality and absolute refusal to discuss it, is then used by people like Martin Schulz and yourself to claim Leave had no plan!

Yes, Leave has a plan! It's called "get the hell out of this madhouse as quickly as possible". That's it!



You can blame it all on the EU if you like. We're still fucked. There's no way the EU will give us a good deal, and it turns out that no-one had any kind of realistic negotiating strategy. (Remember all that delusional nonsense from the Leavers about how Germany would have to give us a good deal because the country is run by its car industry? Oops...)


No?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the US is now run by a guy who thinks the EU sucks, that Brexit was great, and whose best buddy in Europe is Nigel Farage.

And is it not the case that the most popular politicians in other core countries are all anti-EU?

Let's see how this plays out.


Ah I see, so their plan was for Trump to win the presidency and for the entire EU to collapse before we make a deal. Sure, let's see how that plays out. Third time lucky?


"Let's get out before the EU implodes" was actually a campaigning point, though not one that affected my own decision much. I would be surprised if the EU collapses. But then again, almost everyone was taken by surprise when the USSR disintegrated, and the conventional wisdom was that neither Brexit nor Trump could happen. So we'll see. Suffice it to say that there are structural weaknesses there.

Regardless, sometimes you have to leave a social group if that group is becoming self-destructive, even if it hurts in the short run.


Right, so we are going to have to negotiate while the EU is still in tact. What's the plan for how we do that? What reason does the EU have to give us a good deal?


Well, I'd say "because it'd be what's best for people in EU countries" but I don't honestly believe the EU cares about that, beyond perhaps avoiding mass expulsions on both sides. So far they seem more interested in securing payments into their pensions.

So my view is that they have no incentive to give the UK a good deal. This does not imply the UK should have remained. They have no incentive because they aren't accountable to the people, except via very indirect and essentially broken ways, and besides lots of Europeans buy the argument that they must suffer to preserve the union.


>So my view is that they have no incentive to give the UK a good deal.

Right.

>This does not imply the UK should have remained

It probably implies that we shouldn't have thrown a temper tantrum without having a strategy.


What would your strategy be for leaving?


I would not leave. I don't think there is a good strategy, which is why we should not have done it.




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