to me this makes it all the more odd - at a glace the top level responses are about how the piece made them emotional/sad or are reminisces about their own parents.
What's wrong with that? Because these folks experienced the "best outcome" (presumably to see their parents live to old age) they shouldn't get emotional about it?
"Emotional" is the kind of half-truth word. There are many different emotions. The emotion in question is what's responsible for the response. Saying "emotional" is omitting the important part. It's like saying "involved in road accident" w/o saying whether one caused the said accident or was the victim of.
The top-level response in question is disgusting. It's like listening to someone who won a million dollars in a lottery complain that they didn't win ten millions. Should I really feel compassionate towards a "victim" of such a bad luck of only winning a single million? Even if the "victim" genuinely feels bad about themselves?
No one is asking for your compassion or complaining, they're largely just expressing how the piece made them feel - and again, reminiscing about their own parents.
you're characterizing them as ungrateful, which isn't really coming across for me at all.
That is surprising - considering how close they are. I've always ended up flying out of New York or Toronto, at what I'd consider reasonable prices. I suspect it's because of the sizable expat/2nd/3rd gen population in the northeast.
Flights are scheduled based on demand, not proximity. There are many Caribbean islands that are so close you can see them from each other on a good day, but the fastest way to travel between them is via Miami.
Being Guyanese in tech is an interesting experience. FWIW I have yet to meet another Guyanese person at work. In every workplace I go to the experience is similar - initially the south asian folks approach me, but then once they realize we're not that culturally similar I end up in a sort of limbo. Not to say that folks aren't welcoming, but every large company ends up having sort of cultural cliques, and I never seem to fit into any of them.
Curious if there are any other Guyanese folks out there who're willing to share their experience.
I am British born, with Trinidadian and Guyanese parents. I've had a very similar experience, not just in tech but throughout all areas of my life. I look Indian, but culturally it's very different.
Everyone always (perhaps South Asians more commonly) asks where I'm from. I say I'm British. They ask "no, really". I say Trinidadian and Guyanese heritage. They say "you look like you are from India, your family must be from India". It does get a bit tiresome.
The only time it actually _really_ annoys me is when I have to fill out forms with ethnicity. There is never Asian-Caribbean, but always Black-Caribbean, so I always feel that I am never being represented.
Out of curiosity, what kind of forms ask for your ethnicity? Maybe it's because I'm living in Europe, but I've never been asked for that in my entire life, and if I would, I would find it very strange ..
It's very common in the U.S. It's ostensibly done to gather evidence of discrimination. Most government forms require it, and large employers are required to report the racial/ethnic makeup of their staff to the government, along with gender, past military service, and persons with disabilities. California recently added a requirement for VCs to ask the founders they fund their sexual orientation.
People have written entire books on the politics behind how the government comes up with the sometimes-illogical categories into which folks are divided.
In the US, governmental departments and large employers frequently ask for ethnicity on all sorts of forms to help the organization ensure that it is meeting its DEI goals.
I used to work with a carpenter from Trinidad. This was in the southern US, and at an employer where I was probably the only college educated person. I recall them as being very professional but able to socialize easily with everyone else, and they were also insanely good at chess.
Despite externally-incited ethnic conflict, Guyana was a comparatively post-tribal melting pot of cultures and social classes. e.g. kids stack-ranked nationally into peer-group schools around age 10, based on standardized test. Outside Guyana:
Are you from India?
West Indies | South America | Guyana
Where are your parents from?
A couple hundred years ago, my ancestors left India
Oh <disappointed>
[every time: wait, what if I had said yes? nevermind]
It has become so exhausting doing this dialogue tree with Indian folks - particularly true for the older population. it's their opener for small talk...
Indian here. I've never fit in any of the traditional Indian cliques. Such a blessing! At the end of the day, you're going to lose your individuality over the group or sub-group you're identifying with. And you're going to be pulled into their politics and drama. Read Naval's thoughts on the importance of solitude and dis-identification with any group, in order to be able to become the individual you are meant to be. And thank your stars that none of the traditional Indian cliques wants you.
Hah, appreciate the response. Being able to stay out the drama is nice - though I do find my self sometimes craving the support structures and sense of belonging that these cliques provide. Especially when at work all I hear around me is Mandarin or Hindi, in the hallways, at lunch, essentially in any context except full-on work meetings where it almost feels like they're _forced_ to speak English for me.
My 0.02 cents on this issue: it is terribly rude to speak Mandarin or Hindi, when in a mixed group setting at work, in the USA. Be happy you didn't become one of these rude people. Support structures... I get it. It does help to have a sort of extended-family sometimes. Here's what I've found helpful: get into an activity where such support structures organically form. And you can have the support structure without attendant ethno-centric drama and politics.
There are also downsides to being in these ethnocentric cliques. Know the crabs in a bucket effect, and the saying about how you can't become a prophet in your own town. There's a strong anchoring effect your own people have regarding you. When they see you rising up, they wonder why you're succeeding and they're not, and try to drag you down (instead of celebrating your rise). There's a strong hierarchy within these cliques, and you're not supposed to break-out of your "correct position" in the hierarchy.
Also, if it helps to know this: I have relatives who are thick in the middle of their Indian cliques. What do they do when they're not with their clique-members? Trash-talk about them.
I appreciate the response, and it does indeed help. Maybe I'm not missing out on much after all.
The activity is good advice. Some of my closest friends I've meet though hobbies I enjoyed - I'll just need to apply the same strategy, though it definitely feels tougher to do without having school as a crutch to force socializing.
i left my home country and generally stayed away from most expat groups primarily to get away from the people i was being identified with and pretty much avoid all the things you mention.
I haven't thought about this in a long time, but as we were leaving Guyana, I remember my paternal grandfather warning me to stay away from the Guyanese in America: "they will just try to pull you down to their level."
I've heard similar sentiments, but I've always felt like there's something pernicious about this attitude, similar to self-internalized racism. "Down to their level" == the same "disadvantaged" state of affairs that we come from.
Born Guyanese, but only lived there until I was 3, then we moved to St. Lucia. Have lots of memories from visiting over summers and Christmas multiple times when I was a kid.
Mostly consider myself Lucian and I feel like I've assimilated into the American tech population. My history now is just a interesting fun fact. Don't meet too many people from the Caribbean in general in tech circles, so it's always fun to get a reminder that they're out there.
My dad's side of the family is indo-guyanese (and he was specifically in tech for his whole career). It's interesting, they've (and I, to a lesser extent) reported something similar, where every once in a great while people from India will recognize our last name and then slowly realize we don't have much in common culturally. Our food is "caribbean-indian" for instance (apparently Trinidad has something similar), it's kind of different than what you'd get from in a regular Indian restaurant.
The comment the author made about the caste system not coming to Guyana tracks too, my aunt has encountered people making quips about it at work every once in a blue moon.
As a die hard cricket fan I am pretty well aware of the talented Guyanese cricketers, most notably Shivnarine Chanderpaul. I think most of your Indian colleagues likely follow cricket so that could be a great way to start bonding with them. Of course, if you don't follow cricket then that's a useless advice!
Beyond this, I would suggest learning a little bit about the common topics we "Desi" people talk about at work. In the US most of us will talk about local issues way more than anything happening back in India. This is partly because India is quite siloed. So there is a good chance that people are talking about elections these days.
Btw language barriers play a huge role. I understand Spanish and Portuguese better than I understand many Indian languages. In many cases, I can't even figure out which language people are speaking. (As an aside, it is possible that some of your colleagues are not speaking Hindi but some other language altogether.) None of my Indian colleagues in my university speak my native language. Many of them don't speak Hindi. So we communicate only in English.
Well, TIL! I had always assumed that Hindi was a sort of lingua franca in India, taught in the schools alongside the regional language. Guess that is not so, then? (Is there a lingua franca in today's India at all, then? English?)
I have met two other Guyanese people in the US outside of friends of my family. One of them was actually someone I was friends with in Guyana. Purely by coincidence we went to the same US high school and came across each other in a hallway. The other had moved here when he was about 2 years old.
Shouldn't be surprised. It's a country the size of England with the population of a large neighborhood in Brooklyn.
I had a Guyanese coworker at my last company. I initially thought she was Indian based on her name and looks. Her background made us have a lot to talk about and we were good friends.
As an American of South Asian ancestry, I have always been intrigued by other South Asian diaspora communities like the ones in Guyana, Trinidad and South Africa. I wonder if the cultural evolution of those South Asian communities can be used to forecast how Indian American culture will evolve. One key difference of course is that immigration from India to the US is ongoing while it stopped in Guyana for the most part and may have led to more cultural evolution.
Wow, this is the first tech podcast I've ever found with a guyanese host - also interestingly they appear to have a carribbean-focused cricket site that appears to be still maintained:
Might be tiring if South Asians start referring to cricket as one of first points of conversation as well as many average Indians are still unaware of the broader history
You have to kind of push your way into circles if you want to make friends at work. Cliquishness is kind of natural, but it can be overcome with a little Type A extrovertedness
What's wrong with that? Because these folks experienced the "best outcome" (presumably to see their parents live to old age) they shouldn't get emotional about it?