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I agree that Zoho is more intuitive than Zendesk and 10-20x cheaper, but that’s a really low bar. However, when we evaluated Zoho this past spring to replace our b2c 60-100 seat month Zendesk contract, we found Zoho to be really disjointed where every app was configured and looked different. The pricing and lack of contract was great but it seemed like different things were tacked together like how an agent would have to have two tabs open to take calls through their telephony app and answer chats through their B2B oriented messaging app. When our new contract for Customer Service expires I’ll check them out again but I think they need to standardize and simplify the look and feel of there apps and merge some if they want to move up market. For small businesses with a shoestring budget they’re a no brainier though!


> like how an agent would have to have two tabs open to take calls through their telephony app and answer chats through their B2B oriented messaging app.

Unfortunately, truth be told, most software is like that. Take Salesforce for instance - same issue. Granted, Zendesk niches at this painpoint you mentioned (and I've seen some enterprises switch from Zendesk to Salesforce and face the exact same issue as above), but their insane price increases after the PE acquisition does not inspire hope. UI-wise, Zendesk is still the best.


It kind of does. They’re dead.


I’ve had two experiences with off-shoring. The first time my former CTO brought in a near shore firm and they worked independently on a large project. There was no knowledge transfer or collaboration with the on shore devs. They built what was asked, it was over engineered and much was built of little value. We still have the software they wrote but it is a liability. The second time, I’m now in the CTO position, instead of having the nearshore people silo’d we work integrated. Everyone is on the same team, code reviews, pull requests, all mutually understood. It’s so much better. It all starts from the top and if you don’t have vision you’re doomed to fail.


I haven’t read these books but it’s not unreasonable that this author or any other author could have reason to not be forthright about what their book is about


It makes sense. It was ridiculous that they were originally proposing ticketing people without there being signage that it was illegal to park there. They need to just paint the curbs.


Is it ridiculous to ticket someone who parks in the middle of Market St if there's no sign that it's illegal?

No. Driving a car is a privilege, and a dangerous one at that, which requires a competency test. It is not unreasonable to expect licensed drivers to know the statewide laws that govern that privilege without reminder signs.


>> Is it ridiculous to ticket someone who parks in the middle of Market St if there's no sign that it's illegal?

I saw someone just parked in the right lane (of two) heading up California street at maybe Mason. Just sitting there reading a book. <!>


While I agree on this, the US is a bit special as having a car is considered mandatory.

IMHO, that culture needs to be changed: better public transport and walkable cities.

When that is established, then it is also easier to revoke the drivers privilege.


In some ways, yes, though not in many cities like SF, NYC, Chicago, Seattle, etc.

But it's also a chicken and egg problem: often transit is not viable or is too slow precisely because everything is devoted to cars. The SF Van Ness BRT is an excellent example - I used to routinely get off the 49 bus and walk faster than it stuck in car traffic, but after the BRT the bus is a much better and faster experience than driving could ever be.

One of the most common reasons for watering down or canceling pedestrian, transit, and biking infra projects is a refusal to negatively impact driving in any way, even if the net societal benefit (especially to lower income households who take transit at much higher rates) is far greater.

Good governance requires sometimes unpopular choices (see Paris's recent bicycle transformation, or SF's recent recall election over the creation of a new public park in place of a redundant street)


> The SF Van Ness BRT is an excellent example - I used to routinely get off the 49 bus and walk faster than it stuck in car traffic

It's funny that you use that particular example considering the SF Supervisors of 1958 are the ones who created that problem by refusing to build the elevated freeway that transit planning engineers correctly envisioned we would need. Tearing down the stub end of it also created the most dangerous intersection in the city at Market & Octavia. As a pedestrian it would be so nice to have cars elevated up off the ground instead of having to wait to cross on foot. A lot of intersections of Octavia and its cross streets don't even allow pedestrian crossing at all lmfao


Having a car in SF is not mandatory. It's quite useful but you can live well without.


  you can live well without
Imagine you and your spouse both work full time, and you have 1-2 children. And your definition of 'living well' includes having those children learn to swim well, and do some sort of after-school sport, and also do math supplementation because SFUSD teaches math at a really slow pace.

I don't believe any of the above are outlier or unreasonable positions to have.

Yet a family in that situation would severely struggle to fit everything in if they had to rely solely on public transport to get between home, school and after-school activities.

(I grew up in London, where public transport is often faster than driving. In San Francisco, most of my car journeys would take 3-4 times as long by public transport.)


Admittedly, public transport is garbage. And for the time we'd go to La Petite Baleen, a car is 0.5x the time. So in that respect I agree. In Mission Bay everything else is close by.

But I think perhaps if someone told me "We don't live well. I can only take my child to swim class on the weekends" I would think that somewhat strange.


Re: La Petite Baleen: 34 mins vs 1 hour 11 mins for me.

My son's swim school is 20 mins away by car, or 60 mins by public transport.

I take your point that these are first world problems.

But my point is that not having access to a car in San Francisco is a significant inconvenience and it's incorrect to say 'you can live well' without that access. You might not be so inconvenienced that you would say "we don't live well", but there's a 'meh' zone in between the two.


I wouldn't say it's "meh" that you can take your kids to swim school only on weekends.

LPB is 23 vs 39 for me but I do drive. Either way I wouldn't think it "meh".

But I suppose standards of living in the US are by default so far ahead of other places that these are considered the minimum to not be "meh" here.


  LPB is 23 vs 39 for me but I do drive. Either way I wouldn't think it "meh".
The 39 minute journey time doesn't include:

- the time between now and the journey start time

- delays

So you would need to budget an hour each way, i.e. a total of 2.5 hours for a 30 minute swim lesson.

Imagine doing that for every single thing you need to do.


Normally I'd agree with you, but I can pick my swim lesson time and I don't have to worry about headway timing because I know when to leave and the train is timed. For untimed services, certainly I'd believe it.

These are complaints of generality that don't have relevance in the specific case.


Why? Having a driver's license is a privilege that requires you to study and know the rules of the road. The onus is on you to know the rules.


There are also international tourists who may have different local parking rules than the ones in SF. Having clear demarcations between allowed and non allowed parking areas makes it easier for everyone to follow the correct rules.


Do you have an rss feed of road rules piped into Anki cards or what?

Or just maybe "driver's license is a privilege that requires you to study and know the rules of the road" is a fallacious claim that rests on pedantic legal formalism and an impoverished sense of human psychology.


No, I don't; there are plenty of places you can't legally park that do not have painted curbs or "No Parking" signage. Do we also need curbs and signage near every fire hydrant? How about every driveway? Can drivers double-park anywhere they want? Should they yield to pedestrians in crosswalks? Etc. etc.


Reviewing the thread, the context is newly enforcing something that might not be illegal in all jurisdictions. Citing different contexts where signage is not always used doesn't change the fact that the discussion focuses on change in common practice in a specific context. In fact, I observe plenty of signage for fire hydrants and driveways in places where people commonly make parking errors.

The question still stands. How do you ensure you detect changes rules of the road in order to maintain your privilege?

  >>>>>>> Where I live, many people park at intersections right up to the curb
  >>>>>> This is now illegal in some states
  >>>>> It's illegal in California but in San Francisco official policy is to not enforce this law.
  >>>>> If there's no red paint on the curb, they won't ticket you.
  >>>> It was ridiculous that they were originally proposing ticketing people without there being signage that it was illegal to park there.
  >>> Why? Having a driver's license is a privilege that requires you to study and know the rules of the road.
  >> Do you have an rss feed of road rules piped into Anki cards or what?
  > No, I don't; there are plenty of places you can't legally park that do not have painted curbs or "No Parking" signage.


You enforce them; if I get a ticket for parking at an intersection, I won't do it again!

(Also, in the specific context of this discussion, parking restrictions near intersections are super common; this is not some esoteric new law that has been introduced. See https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/reports-and-docume...)


Your claim was formerly "Having a driver's license is a privilege that requires you to study and know the rules of the road."

Your claim is now tickets are the loss function for building one's road rule model? What happened to the requirement for study?


In San Francisco, they publicized the new laws in two ways:

1. Media campaigns (posters, PR etc.).

2. A multi-month period last year during which they issues 'warning' tickets (with nothing for the driver to pay).


How bizarre, this rule is enforced across most of EU without signage and somehow most people cope. Why wouldn't Americans?


It isn't bizarre that rules and practice vary widely in different cultural contexts. Even your claim is caveated as "most of EU," recognizing that it might not be the same in all places.

In many places in the US, there is a culture of legibility, whereby informational affordances are relevantly and generously provisioned. This allows for more certainty for both facility users and rule enforcers. On the flip side, there are a lot of signs all over the place.


The law has been widely communicated.

You could argue that people cannot be expected to carry tape measures with them, because their glove compartments are too small.

But the difficulty of judging the distance from the intersection is a factor in a minority of cases.

SFMTA could have chosen to enforce the law but allow a tolerance of 5 feet. That would start providing safety benefits earlier without surprising any driver who made an honest mistake in their estimate of the distance.


It kind of did, Facebook, YouTube, Google, were all enabled by the massive internet cable infrastructure investment laid in the 90s.


Yep, but the dotcom burst was still was a burst. Ex post success does not matter in that analysis, and in fact, I'm arguing that the dotcom burst was instrumental for companies like Facebook, Youtube and Google to develop as they did.


A bursting bubble doesn't instakill an entire industry. No one is suggesting that. Bursting bubbles are harmful to most market participants and often have a blast radius beyond the industry. It's great that Facebook and YouTube emerged (I suppose) but that doesn't help grandad who lost 35% of his retirement fund.


Theaters still exist you should go back. I go two or three times a month. If your kid is 4 or older they’ll have a great time. It’s good and healthy to get out of the house!


Better for everyone because the talented H1B employee is no longer shackled to their employer and can leave demanding a higher wage and raising wages for everyone.


Well you just answered why they don't/won't do this.

The H1B employees being shackled and thus having little to no leverage to demand higher compensation or better working conditions is (from the point of view of the companies abusing the system) a feature of the system, not a bug.


Well, which is exactly why we should do this


> can leave demanding a higher wage and raising wages for everyone.

This is simply not believable. More competition for a limited resource (jobs) means lower wages, not higher wages.


I guess you’re proposing eliminating the h1b program to raise wages. That would maybe work but our companies would theoretically be less competitive globally. If we’re going to allow immigration based on professional skills then these people should be fast tracked to having the same employment rights as natives otherwise it creates a subclass of workers that depress wages because those that belong to that group will be too risk adverse to ask for more money knowing that they’ll likely have to leave the country if they get let go.


Yes, eliminate H1B.

>otherwise it creates a subclass of workers that depress wages

Again, we can just skip the middle-man here and fix wages by ending H1B.



It’s also what’s called a high prestige low pay career which is by definition exclusionary of poor and middle income people, so the news makers are further and further detached from regular people.

https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2022/02/07/the-dangers-...


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