They can do whatever they want with it with the sure knowledge that the users will never leave it. Tiktok is the digital equivalent of "getting kids addicted to heroin"
Completely anecdotally, I've seen Tiktok get replaced almost entirely by Instagram Reels in the sample space of, well, links to funny videos people send me. It doesn't count for much, but I do feel people might have slightly overestimated how much sticking power a platform like this has.
Actually I think there’s an important distinction there: the draw of TikTok isn’t people sending videos to you, it’s the algorithm that automatically suggests them to you. I’ve heard it describes as uncanny at matching your interests and Reels isn’t anywhere near it.
I tried it once. It uncannily picked up on what I was interested that day. However, by the second day I had moved on to new interests, but it didn't. It keep trying to push the same thing as the day before that I was no longer interested in anymore.
Perhaps the algorithm has gotten better since, but I had no reason to want to use it after that.
I’ve used both and I think that’s cope. There’s more younger creators and maybe more varied content on TikTok.
If you want proof, watch someone’s feed with them. Invariably they will start to apologize. Classic “he’s different when we’re alone” rationalization for an addictive substance
While TikTok is clearly still dominant, I don't think it has much of a moat.
If Insta and youtube shorts get enough traction, there's no reason creators won't simply post to each of them to maximize their reach. The legacy platforms are heavily courting/promoting short form video, why leave possible monetization on the table?
Hell, I'm too old for their demo, but I see TikTok videos posted to Reddit and even BlueSky.
In the grand scheme of things, it's not like Zuck is any better than Ellison in the context of the article. Conservative consolidation of media is the point: Twitter, Meta, TikTok, are all the same flavor of Skittles with a slightly different colored shell.
A lot of the people in my age group (Millennials) decided that TikTok was where we were going to get off the "hot new social media platform" train.
The Zoomers and GenAlpha kids seemed to be the people really using it, but I'm just a crotchety old guy with a bald head and a gut and an office job at this point, so I don't know what the hip young people are up to with their Tok Clocks and their loud rock music.
No but everyone has been or has known someone who rages when they lose access to their videogames, and everyone knows someone who has played videogames to the point that it is detrimental to their school or work obligations.
You can replace "videogames" with literally anything and it still works.
Sports, dance, family, etc.
Everybody knows too many people for an anecdote to make videogames and heroin the same. It's like pointing out some school shooter played a violent video games; so did the people they shot. You need to disprove the null hypothesis; not show that there exists evidence.
> You can replace "videogames" with literally anything and it still works.
That's like saying "one who cannot go without food is the same as one who is addicted to heroin." You're engaging in superficiality to the point that all distinction is made meaningless.
> It's like pointing out some school shooter played a violent video games
>You're engaging in superficiality to the point that all distinction is made meaningless
Yes, that's the point.
>That's a totally different argument
Not really. It's the Millenial equivalent the satanic rock scare. Politicians will always use these kinds of tricks to influence opinion and even enact laws.
I want more than sound bites if we're going to compare addiction to something as well studied as hard drugs.
Nah, Tiktok got popular not just because of the Algo, but also because of the creator fund which makes the Algo rich with good content. Since they stopped that 2 years ago Top creators (different from influencers, who make money from advertising/sponsors) are moving to first Instagram Reels and now Youtube Shorts because that’s where the money is at. Any firm who wants can build an audience by paying creators. It takes time though, because the creators have to convince their audience to switch.
Tiktok is not heroin. Tiktok does not make you vomit if you quit using it. Tiktok does not give you a 5 year life expectancy. You can't overdose on it and die. Tiktok does not make you rob a grandma to get your next fix of it.
I hate social media more than most people do, and I don't use tiktok and don't think anyone else should, but can we all please stop comparing a mobile phone app to using heroin? It's misinformed and dangerous to make rhetorical comparisons like that.
It's like how the Sackler's did everything they can to make opioids more addictive and increase profit margins, there is virtually no difference between this and Zuckerberg hiring psychologists to make his apps more addictive.
You're right, heroin is merely physical addiction. TikTok is psychological, emotional and social crack for young malleable minds. Produced by the subjects of, and in cahoots with, an aggressive totalitarian regime that has about as much respect for human life as Oracle has for its customers.
Also assuming your heroin isn't tainted it isn't toxic and you can have a normal life expectancy.
I empathize w/ your take. I've occasionally responded similarly to the thoughtless use of "cancer" in shallow analogies, as a survivor who's also watched it kill several people I dearly love. I don't have direct experience w/ heroin, but the film "Requiem For A Dream" was unforgettable and helps me better understand its evil.
Unfortunately, whether it's a deadly drug or a deadly disease, these casual references are unlikely to drop from public discourse anytime soon. And I personally would rather live in a world where insensitive or potentially-triggering language is gently discouraged, than one where the pendulum swings too far the other way towards censorship or radical left woke cancel culture. Words can be unintentionally callous without being "micro-aggressions". (And I say that as a liberal progressive.)
Thanks for posting in a personal and persuasive manner, instead of anger. Yours is the more effective approach anyway.
Honestly, why? You see the exact same nonsense over and over. I've seen nothing to indicate that the community is any better than most other moderated forums. Worse than some.
>Tiktok does not give you a 5 year life expectancy
12 year old life expectancy then?
> The lawsuit, filed in the US claims that Isaac Kenevan, 13, Archie Battersbee, 12, Julian "Jools" Sweeney, 14, and Maia Walsh, 13, died while attempting the so-called "blackout challenge". Four children died because of, compared to one, who injects?
Heroin invokes addiction, TikTok does that. Heroin can cause physical dependency, TikTok brews this. Heroin is highly addictive, isn't TikTok to the young viewer?
I still hold my point that TikTok can be distilled and viewed as a form of Digital Heroin. Evidence shows.
Depends, how rich are they in this hypothetical scenario?It's being poor that's the problem, and we know that's true because of the many rock stars who've lived with a heroin addiction for many many years.
If it's the first thing you think about when you wake up, and it kills you to sleep at night, and you think about it all day, sure, one's a highly addictive habit that destroys lives, and the other is heroin. Which is also a highly addictive habit that destroys lives. Funnily enough, one destroys lives because it's legal, and the other destroys lives because it's illegal. But if you're taking your phone to bed with you at night, and it's the first thing you check in the morning, before you even have a thought to yourself, okay, you're not injecting it with a needle under a freeway underpass but after you get fired for watching TikTok on the clock and can't pay your rent, is you're landlord gonna care when you don't pay rent whether you got fired for drugs or a smartphone addiction?
Because "digital heroin" is a nonsense phrase used as a thought-terminating cliché.
> when the side-effects are the same of?
Assuming that this is intended to be something like "when the side effects are the same as those of heroin?" then the premise is false; the effects (side or otherwise) of TikTok are not meaningfully similar to those of heroin.
some people feel like they are addicted to short form content but it’s really nothing like a drug addiction much less an addiction to something as devastating as heroin
TikTok (along with the other platforms) is more like cigarettes, or sugar.
It's highly addictive. The negative effects are somewhat diffuse and may take a while to really impact your life, but they're very real.
And, rather importantly, it's legal and widely available, and the industry behind them is suppressing evidence of their harms and making tons of money off of addiction.
I guess so. 36 and having seen the internet from IRC to how it is now arguing over some internet forum because views are different. How old are you?
TikTok causes chemical release in the brain and which can cause other self psychological damage. Heroin causes chemical release in the brain in the brain, and can cause other self psychological damage.
Both are addictions, both are hard to fight. Some find it easier some find it hard.
The effects of one are more devastating sure, Alcohol is more damaging than Caffeine; I'm not ruling that out.
However the effects of Heroin which comes with addiction and the cravings are some-what mimicked within the realms of TikTok.
To op below:
I'm now rate limited, so I can't reply directly.
A drug, a real life substance that is designed to alter human chemistry. Cannabis, Caffine, MDMA, DMT all alter your brain chemistry organically.
You cannot compare one or to something that is man-made digital. You can however compare the effects of a substance that is organically designed to that of something is digital. The relation of effects of TikTok to Heroin are very similar.
Social media is being designed as a digital service to alter human chemistry. It works, why do you think the world is in utter shit? Why do you think social enterprises pay big bucks to exploit the human psyche by hiring sociologists/psychologists?
The TikTok icon on mobile devices is strategically designed to manipulate and trigger a response.
Facebook is a grand example with the A/B emotional testing they did with Cambridge Analytica which that is that is far worse then heroin IMO. At least with Heroin you need to inject.
> TikTok causes chemical release in the brain and can cause other self psychological damage.
You're literally describing any activity that someone enjoys generating natural dopamine, and then comparing it to a drug that crosses your blood-brain barrier and mimicks your brain's chemistry to give you a super-charged chemical version of that. The difference in dopamine levels is orders of magnitude. Your brain re-wires itself to handle the level of dopamine produced and you start only feeling normal if you're constantly using the drug. I would be surprised if Tiktok generated even 1/10th the dopamine level of using methamphetamine. It all honestly sounds quite fun, but my awareness of the consequences will prevent me from ever trying them.
Eating a good meal, having sex, finishing writing your first novel, winning a race, doing breath work, doing yoga, rock climbing, and an unlimited supply of examples generate dopamine in our brains the same way that Tiktok does. They can all ruin your life just as much, if you allow them to.
A much better comparison would be to describe Tiktok as a "digital slot machine", and indeed slot machine mechanics have been heavily studied by social media platforms to make usage more habitual. Nir Eyal's Hooked was an interesting and informative read on this topic. If he describes social media as heroin in the book I'll happily take the self-own.
I think age is a lame argument here but fwiw i also grew up on IRC and 90s internet - I just have a less rosy view of that time.
> TikTok causes chemical release in the brain
Basically everything causes a chemical release in the brain. For example HN does as well, would you compare posting on HN to heroin?
> both are hard to fight
I know and knew people both addicted to heroin and to TikTok. Let me assure you that ditching a short-form content addiction is VASTLY more easy than ditching heroin.
> the effects of Heroin which comes with addiction and the cravings are some-what mimicked within the realms of TikTok
This is true for everything that humans enjoy. Next you gonna say that talking a walk in nature or working out is like heroin because I enjoy it and I’m addicted to it (if I don’t do it every day I feel bad and I have a compulsion to do it every day)
> why do you think the world is in utter shit
I disagree with that assessment, the “world” as a whole is actually much better than it used to be 30 years ago. Of course that might not be the case for you individually but then this thread is more about your feelings than an objective observation of the world.
> At least with Heroin you need to inject.
Most heroin users don’t inject which ones again shows you don’t know anything about it outside of tropes and cliches.
“At least with TikTok you need a smartphone and internet and swipe to unlock” - see how dumb that makes me sound?
Don’t get me wrong I dislike the tech hegemony and social media as much as you - I just think your way of arguing damages your position more than it helps it.
part of the definition of addiction is that it has a negative impact on your life, so your nature walks and exercise arent comparable without describing that harm
I state my age so at least I can represent myself as someone with experience in this world and who has seen the internet deteriorate from something fundamental awesome to a wash-rag floating in a swamp.
I see it as Digital Heroin. If others, you don't, fine.
Social Media is addicting. I use none and explaining it as " digital heroin" may be an extreme way to present the thought but at least it's bluntly represents the curse of it. Finally, it's not the teenagers at fault. It's the governments in the first place for allowing this. I saw it on the wall when Facebook came to be back in 2007.
Not true, YouTube is the dominant player in short form content, and while TikTok has a loyal fanbase, I don't think it's a wall YouTube couldn't climb.
For those that are downvoting this based on vibes, please feel free to get recent view counts that prove me wrong.
My relative runs a digital marketing company. The only platform they can reach 16-20 age bracket is via TikTok. Facebook, Instagram and YouTube for older people still work, but are fading.
Comparing views cross-platform is not a very useful study and YouTube routinely adjusts what a view means. Shorts changed earlier this year to count all playbacks and loops without a minimum watch time requirement. https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/333869549/a-change...
YouTube Shorts is littered with reposted content from TikTok and Instagram, with a layer of AI slop on over it all. It seems overrun by people who don’t make content of their own, but were looking for a quick and easy payday.
YouTube keeps pushing it harder and harder. On the AppleTV, search often returns 90% Shorts, with no way to filter them out.
I think the main problem is a YouTube "customer" is there because they're looking for long form content, and someone looking for sort videos is probably already either a TikTok or Instagram user with no particular reason to switch.
Not downvoting you but such a broad statement is pretty meaningless if you don't segment by age group. Also Tiktok captures almost the same percentage of US ad video spending - that wouldn't be the case if youtube had so many more viewers that matter to advertisers.
Youtube Shorts, maybe, but Youtube is obviously broader than TikTok, and it is not just a dopamine machine, unlike TikTok. Can you find research seminars on TikTok?
TikTok has longer content, some of it quite academic, but it's all vertical. I don't know about any one else's TikTok, but mine has a dedicated STEM feed if I scroll all the way to the left at the top. The problem is their vaunted algorithm will prioritize whatever content you happen to come across and then linger on, which tends to end up not prioritizing eg math content until you reset your algorithm and search for content you want the fresh algorithm to prioritize.
